Letters to the Editor
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Not sure it's so polarized
I'm just curious, after reading the article (which I found amusing) and these responses (somewhat baffling), why anyone would fashion the situation into a debate of the Left versus the Right. I'm not even sure that has anything to do with it. Much of it is simply generational (James Dean, the bad kid, the rebel who makes every parent nervous), some might be pure sexism (a grown man enraged by a young woman's t-shirt--might even slip in some Freudian analysis there), and the rest can probably be chalked up to the innate differences in human personalities. Why does politics have to infuse EVERYTHING?
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defining "hate speech"
Let's get something straight here: the difference between "hate speech" and obnoxious speech. "Hate speech" is explicitly or implicitly threatening. Obnoxious speech is just....obnoxious. "Fuck this place," while rude and obscene, is not a threat. "Fuck [insert group or person of your choice]" is.
I'm leery of censorship even when it concerns hate speech, but I think hate speech does differ from simple obnoxiousness in the same way the burning a cross on someone's lawn differs from simple vandalism.
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Frank Zappa...
I am reminded of the Frank Zappa appearance on Crossfire in 1986.
you can view the video here.
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12
'Fuck' is just a 'word'....a great word with many uses in a varity of contexts, but still, it is just a word. It is spoken by millions of people every day in a hundreds of different languages. Why, in this day and age, is this word still considered 'offensive' to some people?
I can't remember where I heard this from but it goes something like this:
"The person most easily offended is usually the easiest to offend."
...or something like that
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no censorship, but consider other people's feelings too
Let's get this straight (oops, no pun meant here) "Fuck This Place" isn't hate speech. It expresses disdain, but has no object. Hate speech has to have an object to be considered hate speech. So, no, jeffrey, it isn't the same as saying "Fuck the Jews" or whomever.
That said, even though the t-shirt isn't hate speech, I do find the t-shirt offensive. Do I think Mr 23D should have reported the wearer to the captain, or called her a terrorist? No. But I don't object to someone pointing out to the t-shirt wearer that some of the rest of us dislike her t-shirt, and that reasonable people might not want their kids to hear or see that kind of language yet (my kids are 8, 4 and 2, and I'd rather they put off the F word a while yet).
I don't want t shirt wearer punished, but I do think there might be something to gain from informing her directly that there are other people in the world who have interests she might want to consider. I'm a free speech liberal, in that I don't want the government (or the pilot, in this case) censoring me or others, but I also think others (and I) should consider their impact on other people. You are free, but you don't existing in isolation, people.
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for the record...
... the word is "fey."
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Fey and proud of it!
Jeffrey's conclusions to the contrary, I don't think this is an issue that belongs on either side of the left/right split. I think cultural censoriousness crosses political lines with great ease. I'm no fan of criminalizing "hate speech" either -- if I saw someone with a t-shirt that said "Fuck the Dykes" I might find myself bold enough to address that person directly but I certainly wouldn't attempt to have him or her jailed or thrown off a plane.
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HATE SPEECH
Jeffrey, you seem to be confused. Hate speech is directed toward a person or a group of people. "Fuck this Place" does not qualify. Calling someone "fay" and intending it to be derogatory does qualify. Perhaps more study of free speech issues would help. Spend extra time on the history -- your ideas of who is restricting free speech seem to come from talking points not true study of recent events.
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the real issue I see
If Mr. 23D was so offended by the shirt, he could just have gone over there and said, politely but firmly, "I find your shirt offensive, do you think you could put something on over it?" Maybe he would have gotten some sassy comment from the juvenile delinquent in question, at which point, it may well be the proper thing to complain to the flight attendant. It's passive-aggressive and lame to just sit there and stew and mutter about it and try to get the girl in trouble without talking to her first.
I suspect, however, that Mr. 23D was just happy to bitch and moan to everyone and anyone except the one person who could most directly change his uncomfortable situation. I find that a lot of people would rather complain uselessly about a problem than address it directly. I guess being offended is the closest thing some people get to emotional fulfillment in their stale, frustrating lives.
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Why is this in broadsheet
Broadsheet is for women remember ? cheeky *pink* women. This article should have been for us ALL
I'm sick of this Broadsheet c***p
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Why didn't anyone spot the obvious?
The man in 23D was Jeffrey.
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I don't get it
I agree with Andrew's sentiments, but I fail to see what this is doing in Broadsheet. Does freedom of speech only concern women these days?
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Bravo!!
I must commend Mr. Leonard on his reaction to that fuckwad's attempt to get that teen thrown off the plane (which was surely his intent). And I was shocked at what Southwest Airlines did to the woman with "Meet the Fuckers" on her shirt. What a fucking bunch of fucking motherfuckers. I mean, really, how fucking long will it fucking be be-fucking-fore no fucker in the fucking country can fucking write a fucking sentence without fucking using the fucking word "fuck."
Fuckers.
(I am, of course, being a smart-ass - Mr. Leonard's piece was indeed a tonic).
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Wasn't the passenger just exercising his own freedom of speech?
First, why do you all assume that the offended passenger was a right-winger?
And is it really that big of a deal for a customer to complain to a company about another offensive patron? What's the difference between that and complaining to the restaurant management when another patron loudly talks on their cellphone or has a screaming baby?
I really don't see why it's a problem for a paying customer to air his opinion. If the airline chose to do nothing, he could use another airline next time.
I wonder why y'all are so supportive of the teenager's pointless, immature, and offensive speech, but don't support the complaining guy's freedom to express his own opinion??