The owners of the restaurants in Chicago, in my opinion, have a genuine beef. As even the parents quoted in the article defend, kids are often uncontrollable. They can ruin experiences of other diners. It seems pretty unfair that one set of unruly toddlers ruin dinner for many adults.

Of course, the flip side is that in outlawing kids, these businesses risk offending parents. I think a good solution would be to have kid-friendly and non-kid friendly sections wherever space allows, particularly with so many restuarants now removing non-smoking sections.

One mother suggests that cafe proprietor McCauley "be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices for every minute of the day." But nobody's asking anyone to control anyone's volumes "every minute" -- just the 10-30 that are spent in the cafe. Anyone who can't recognize the distinction is either not terribly bright -- or is deliberately misstating the situation.

And anyone who can't keep their childrens' behaviors within appropriate bounds in a space clearly designed for the quiet enjoyment of its patrons of all ages -- or take them outside until they can quiet down, or come back at an other time, or any of a number of reasonable solutions -- is too selfish or inept or both to make a good parent, regardless of what parenting theories one subscribes to. This isn't anti-child, it's a simple recognition of the fact that the people around you have rights, too, and that those rights are sometimes defined by location and circumstances.

If you can't play nice, you can't complain when nobody will let you play.

I have 2 children -- including an active, toddler boy -- and to cafe managers and restaurateurs who want only well-behaved children, I say HOORAY!!! Finally!!!!

When at cafes and restaurants, shops and most other public places, children are supposed to behave. That's part of a parent's job, to teach the children how to behave -- NOT to make excuses for why they CAN'T!!!

Most of the time, my children don't shriek, they don't jump up and down on the restaurant banquettes, they don't throw things at each other and patrons, they don't run around and around the table chasing each other, they don't try to use me as a jungle gym and climb up and down me, they don't whine incessantly (all things I've observed other children do in just the past 2 months at local cafes and restaurants!)

But the second my children would start up with anything, I take them out. Right away.

Yes, I wish I could lounge around in my local cafe all leisurely-like, as I did in the days before kids. Yes, I wish I could go to great, chic restaurants that don't have coloring books and crayons as placemats, and chicken fingers on the menu. But it is NOT MY RIGHT TO DO SO AT THE EXPENSE OF MY FELLOW PATRONS!!!!!

So, while I'm lucky and can take my children to many places for the most part, there are places I know will make my kids antsy that I just don't go. And if I'm somewhere and my kids have an off day and start acting up somewhere, they are bustled out of there, pronto.

Many a time my husband or I have walked outside a restaurant with a cranky child while the other finishes dinner and gets the rest to go. Howly child in tow, I've had to go to a drive through for a quick cup of fast-food coffee, rather than the venti concoction I really wanted.

Yes, it's a disappointment/inconvenience/big fat drag for me. But I do not feel like "kids will be kids" and that a few shrieks or howls are to be expected, and all the other excuses people give for their children's bad behavior. Because that's what it is... it's bad behavior. Plain and simple.

Why is discipline such a foreign concept to many parents? Why are parents more determined to ensure their own comfort (coffee, meal, etc) at the expense of others, who have to endure the shrieks and bad behavior of the uncontrolled children at large?

Proprietors wouldn't have to put up signs if people kept their children under control, and didn't sit idly by sipping their capuccinos while ignoring the fact that their children are breaking the sound barrier with their shrieking while trying to pelt each other with Splenda packets...

As a parent of three, now teen-aged, kids I agree that there ought to be 'adult only' areas. There is nothing more annoying than going out to dinner and sitting next to a group of adults and a toddler or two who is so tired that he or she cannot possibly behave. A word to the parents: GET A SITTER.

And yes, sitters are expensive and add to the cost of the dinner out. There are ways around that, however. One of the things that worked for my (now ex) husband and me was a co-op where we would sit for others one week and they for us the next. We'd schedule our 'adults only' time for the time when the kids were at the co-op sitters. We also stayed home a lot when the kids couldn't or wouldn't behave. It's a pain to not get your way -- to have to stay home when you wanted to go out -- even as an adult, but that's how raising kids goes. Eventually they become teenagers and never want to be seen in public with you again and then you can write to SALON and say how you love to go out without them now that they are teenagers (or, conversely, how you WISH they'd join you on a night out now that they are teenagers! LOL)

One more point...

While I find howly shrieking kids annoying and cafes and restaurants, let's not forget how irritating and obnoxious the loud cell phone yakkers can be.

I think perhaps they should create special sections at restaurants for all the rowdy, howly children, and all those loud blathering cell phone folks who feel a need to provide a running narrative of every movement to the person on the other end of the cell phone.