It's amazing that the banks and credit houses were essentially handed $700 billion with barely a peep, yet the the car makers are having to jump through hoops just to get $25 billion. If anything, the car makers deserve it more than the banks, because they contribute jobs and a product valuable to many more average citizens than the big banks do.

No doubt the sour comments here are from those who buy foreign cars, and who contributed to the decline of US auto makers over the past 20 years. You folks seem not to mind overpaying for your vehicles, and then continuing to overpay for parts and service over the following years, but I do mind. If the US car makers close, you'll be overpaying by even more. Nice job, folks.

BTW--you might read a little book called "The Millionaire Next Door," to see just why it's smarter to buy American.

I'm at a loss to explain these veiled and non-veiled attacks on Salon itself. I've read it regularly for seven years, and never did it strike me that the publication or any of its writers were against Jews. I notice that those complaining didn't provide a single example. I'd sure like to see one that was legitimate.

There's a lot truth in what's been written here by "steele" and "something stinks." I myself might have said it more diplomatically, but I don't see how anyone who's read the history of Palestine going back to the early 1900's could argue with what they say. You'd have to be in as much denial as Goeth's daughter is about him.

It's amazing to me that, here and elsewhere, when Apologists for Israel scream "Anti-semite!" but still get nowhere, how little else they have to say.

So far, we've been told that the cause of the Palestinian suffering is:

1. The Palestinians

2. The U.N.

3. Jordan

4. No one--there is no suffering

Yet the tanks, guns, bullets, aircraft, and power all belong to Israel. And much of the land in dispute was taken by Israel (by force) and not returned, despite a resolution from the very UN that granted the original land. I guess it's fine to take land when the UN grants it, while orders to surrender land are to be devoutly ignored, but only by Israel.

But blaming Israel for these things is an "oversimplification?!" Wow. The term "sophistry" has already been used here, but I'll second it.

You Apologists are in as much denial as Goeth's daughter.

Yes, you're morons. Like snobby, sniffling heiresses at an art auction, you look down your noses at US cars and bemoan their quality, while fawning all over Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. Of course, I'm willing to bet few, if any, of you even know how a car works, and have never dared try to fix one yourself, which no doubt you also feel is far beneath you.

But I've spent my life working on cars, all makes, and will tell you what's already been proven: smart money buys US cars. Dollar for dollar, they're as well-made or better the foreign cars, are far cheaper on average to buy and repair, and the profit made on those cars goes to a domestic company, not a foreign one.

What about the surveys ya'll cite? Any survey that involves self-reporting of defects or costs is notoriously flawed, as anyone in marketing will tell you. People spent more money to buy their Camry, and so of course they're going to report greater satisfaction with it. This illusion of a quality difference is ingrained in Americans now. All the "satisfaction" studies just reinforce that.

That said though, of course you're going to be more satisfied with a $30K Toyota than with an $18K Sunbird. Of course there will be a quality difference, just as there would be in any two items separated by such a large amount of money. But you dopes insist on comparing them anyway, and dinging the US carmakers for the difference.

Here's a simple test to show what I'm talking about: look at the all the cars around you on a busy highway. Lots of foreign cars, right? Now look at the relative ages of those cars. Maybe you can't tell easily, if you haven't been watching all along, but I can tell you my 1997 Blazer is nearly always the oldest car on the road. Where are all the Hondas/Nissans/Toyotas that are older?

They're already in the junkyard. You'll see them there, too, stacks of them, if you ever take the time to go look.

And save your "horror stories" of your prior experiences with the domestic cars. I've seen stories for every foreign car just as well. And in the mid 70's to late 80's, the domestic makers did need to play catch-up to Japan, but that's been corrected, as it should have.

Read the chapter in "The Millionaire Next Door" about car buying. It's a detailed analysis of the relative costs. You'll see how much money you've wasted worshipping the foreign cars.

Thanks for helping ruin US manufacturing, you idiots.

Sorry, but you're still morons.

For every person like each of you, there's another who's had the same problems with the same VW or Toyota you refer to.

As for the "mileage wars," my father drives a 1995 Chevy van with 325K miles, and still running. And in the national news last year was a report about a Chevy pick up that had just put the ONE MILLIONTH mile on it, and still going. That's 1,000,000 miles. So by your twisted mileage logic, I guess that means Chevy is 3X better than Toyota?

So keep wasting your money on overpriced sales and service. It's just too bad the rest of the country loses along with you.