Maybe we are identifying with Hillary just a little too much perhaps? What's gonna happen if this thing gets tight and Hillary has to start playing hardball a la the South Carolina GOP republican primary of 2004. And don't you dare say she won't because we all know that the Clintons are the best political knife fighters there are, except for maybe the Bushes who frankly I am not even sure are human.

There may come a time (Feb. 6th perhaps?) when you are asking what does it profit Hillary if she gain the nomination but loses her soul? Because your logic of "anything is ok because the GOP will do worse" is exactly where that takes her.

And for the record I am not a Obamaniac however I clearly remember the red state / blue state, independent prosecutor, vast right-wing conspiracy days of the 90s and I have no wish to see them repeated (and for the record, Hillary has never denied that they would return. She has just said that she would win).

I would hope (there's that word again) that this country is better than that or at least we are trying to make it better.

I Hillary beats Obama for the nomination, it will be largely because she and Bill were able to paint him as "the black candidate" a la Al Sharpton in 2004 and Jesse Jackson in 1988. You know, the black guy who speaks to black and minority issues and doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting the nomination so its a waste of time to support him.

It's definitely an effective strategy. Depressing if it ends up working which I'd say it has a good chance right now. If you look at Bill's comments this week about Obama getting votes because he's black and the way that the Clinton camp is framing their potential loss in S.C. it is clear they are trying ot define Obama as the niche candidate.

Of course Obama sees this and is fighting every way possible to get around it but it is subtle and the Clintons are good at it. if Obama doesn't do something in the next week or so to really combat it in a new way, I think it's probably gonna work.

If Hillary beats Obama for the nomination, it will be largely because she and Bill were able to paint him as "the black candidate" a la Al Sharpton in 2004 and Jesse Jackson in 1988. You know, the black guy who speaks to black and minority issues and doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting the nomination so it's a waste of time to support him.

It's definitely an effective strategy. Depressing if it ends up working, which I'd say it has a good chance right now. If you look at Bill's comments this week about Obama getting votes because he's black and the way that the Clinton camp is framing their potential loss in S.C. it is clear they are trying to define Obama as the niche candidate.

And by the way Joan, that is what Atwater invented - define your opponent. Dukakis was a clueless idiot, Clinton was a liberal (didn't work), Gore was a liar, Kerry was a flip flopper.

And now the Clintons are doing it and I'd say they're doing it pretty well.

Of course Obama sees this and is fighting every way possible to get around it but it is subtle and the Clintons are good at it. If Obama doesn't come up with something in the next week or so to really combat it in a new way, I think it's probably gonna work.

Of course the Clintons might also want to watch out. By putting Obama in the 'black candidate' role, they might become their own worst enemy and John Edwards' best friend. Take a look where all those white democrats are going today in S.C. They aren't going to Hillary that's for sure.

If the candidates wouldn't say it, the media couldn't print / broadcast it.

The candidates are saying what they are saying because they know that it works. The Clintons are trying to define Obama as a wet-behind-the-ears, junior senator who cuts a pretty figure but in the end doesn't have the gravitas to be president. And when he wins they will define his win as just a voting irregularity (NV was going this way) or the black vote turning out for him (S.C. is going this way right now.)

Obama's problem is that he is spending so much time trying to define himself that he has no time to put out his own definition of Hillary - status quo, voice of the past, divisive figure, etc.

Whoever wins this battle will win the nomination and it is a complete cop out and kind of an insult to the intelligence of the candidates and to all of us to think that it's the media (as lazy and as incompetent as they are) who is making up this story. The Media is simply telling the story that they are getting spoon fed by the candidates and their campaigns.

I am sorry if I wasn't clear but I didn't not say that we are being spoon fed. I said it was the media who is being spoon fed a narrative by the candidates and the campaigns who know exactly what they are doing.

Good for Obama. I really really hope that the Clintons take a page out of the Edwards' Nevada playbook and just say "we got out tails whipped" and leave it at that.

It would be the class thing to do. The absolute worst thing they could do tonight is spin this as simply black folks voting for the black guy. That is going to turn a lot of people off.