"But, to suggest as you did that there is a disconnect between constituents and what the Dems are trying to do is silly. What people are objecting to is stuff that isn't in the plan; what is actually in the plan is stuff that people like."

Uh huh...and that's why it's failing, right? Or why so many people who are Democrats are going against it? Or why so many seniors dropped out of the AARP because they support it?

Sorry but what you are suggesting doesn't wash. It's just a matter of time until they either pass it, and lose bigtime in 2010, or they go back to the drawing board and make a new, better healthcare reform...one with tort reform and other things which would actually solve the problem without creating a government based, socialized healthcare system.

"You mean the opposition that consists of astro-turfers making comparisons to Hitler and communism?"

No, I mean the older folks who just dropped out of AARP because they supported this bill. I mean the Democrat constituents who have told their representatives they don't want this bill to pass, in calm terms. I mean those constituents who haven't had a chance to talk to their representatives because they decided to avoid their constituents and go on a "fact finding" (i.e. Boondoggle) mission to avoid them.

it makes the elite left-wing reformers feel so GOOD about themselves.

And alienates so many of their constituents - that most likely they will LOSE the majority they had for so long!!!

let's KEEP on bailing out people who have mortgage problems...which in turn will cause more problems with the economy...which in turn will cause more jobs to be lost...which in turn will cause MORE delinquent mortgages.

"How many people standing up in town halls screaming about not wanting gov't to come between them and their doctor, are mostly anti-choice? I know expecting consistency is crazy, but someone should really call them on it."

Hummm...and screaming about wanting government to come between you and your doctor and being anti-life ISN'T inconsistent???

I mean if you're going to point out the inconsistencies...let's do it for everyone.

BTW, I used the anti-life term in keeping with your anti-choice term...fair is fair, after all.

REMEMBER this after the 2010 elections when, as it is appearing more and more every day, the Republicans take control of the House and Senate once more.

Remember you said, bipartisanship is for suckers...and let's see if you still like that line.

"the good news is that this makes right wing insanity obvious to any sane person

the bad news is that it is nothing new"

And the worst new is, more of the population are standing behind the conservative's take than they are the liberals take.

Bummer huh.

The public option was doomed from the start. First, people like choices and the public option would have retarted if not removed most, if not all, choices for healthcare. Second, people do not trust the government to manage the costs involved with healthcare - particularly if you consider whether people even think there'll be any money left for them in the Social Security fund when they retire. Also note how many Americans were angry with their representatives when they found out their representative voted for the stimulus bill without reading it first! Finally, people have been alienated by those who are calling them unAmerican, wee weed, nazis, lunatics, right wing nuts, terrorists, etc when they, for the most part, are just average Americans seeking answers or attempting to voice their opinons to their representatives only to be called names, talked down to, or to be flat out ignored.

Nope...I expect this bill to be DOA. In addition to the failure of the bill, Obama has expending all of his good will trying to get it passed and Congress has been chastized by the people. I would be greatly surprised if Congress and Obama can accomplish anything more before the 2010 elections. And AFTER the 2010 elections, I expect President Obama will be dealing with a GOP majority in both the House and the Senate for the rest of his, I predict, one term in office.

showing why Obama can't deliver. His public approval rating is dropping by leaps and bounds. The people just do not trust him like they used to.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Wait, So The Whole Debate Is Over Now? No, it isn't...but it IS a foregone conclusion. You see, the public has demanded their representatives listen to them...and a majority do not want the public option. More to the point, their representatives will undoubtedly listen to their constituents because they LIKE their jobs and don't want to lose them.

So while the debate is over, the results are.

As to the question, is Obama a lame duck now, that would depend on whether he can recover his expended good will and whether the DNC can retain control over the Legislature after 2010 - both of which are debatable questions at this point.

Oh and you can get this from Foxnews, CNN, CSNBC, etc.

Lest those of you think the other side is just sitting on their hands and not trying to come up with a bill of their own - none of which has gotten any media attention.

In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.” URL deactived on this one!

In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.

And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), unveiled the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan.