Confucius Always Say,

"Your membership in the Catholic Church is relevant because you felt the need, like most religionists, to wield it like some Red Badge of Virtue (with apologies to Stephen Crane.) You know, as in "I expect you to take responsibility for your actions and do the right thing, because I'm Catholic." That, at least, was the apparent subtext of your post."

Interesting. I said I may be biased because I am Catholic and you take it as my holding it at a Red Badge of Virtue...yet I didn't have to say it and I knew there would be those (like you) who would throw the recent problems in my face. Seems to me if I had wanted to show a badge of virtue, I wouldn't have mentioned my religion.

"It doesn't matter how most members of an organization act or what most of them think, if the organizational leadership is corrupt to the core, has a history of terrible deeds and cover-ups, and refuses to take responsibility for its most grievous errors, apologize for them, and make amends for them. We all condemn the Nazis and Soviet Communists and fascists and other tyrannical groups from history, but far from all rank-and-file members of those groups committed crimes or even agreed with the actions and beliefs of their leadership. Similarly, the Catholic Church, while a rather different beast, has a long and sordid history of misdeeds--some quite terrible. That doesn't mean all Catholics were involved or supported those abuses, or would excuse them today. But it does mean that the Catholic Church doesn't get to be placed on a rhetorical pedestal as some supposed repository of great virtue. What a joke!"

Ah me. So I am guilty by association. So be it. However, I believe you will find almost EVERY religion has had problems in their past.

"The Church leadership turned its back on the poor and downtrodden of Latin America by destroying Liberation Theology from within and by coddling oppressive, right-wing regimes and overlooking, or actively supporting their crimes. And they wonder why Protestantism is experiencing explosive growth in Latin America! The Church leadership actively allied itself with the Nazis and fascists of Europe, either ignored their crimes or, for example in the case of the Ustashe genocide against the Serbs, actively supported and encouraged them, and when the war ended assisted in the escape of some of the most twisted butchers in world history. The Church leadership played an active role in shielding disturbed pedophiles from justice by coddling them in the bosom of the Church and by moving them around so that they could target even more victims, and by fighting tooth and nail against any large-scale exposure of their crimes. This was not merely a case of a few "bad apples"--it was a pervasive rot running throughout the whole organization."

The church has certain doctrines which it must follow. If that is a problem, so be it. No one is forcing Latin Americans to be Catholic...it's a choice. The Nazis were dealt with because there was no one to turn to. As I recall, the Italian government at the time were allies of the Nazis...the Catholic church was fighting to remain alive...of course there ARE those who wish the Nazis had wiped the church out. And yes there have been pedophiles in the church. As I have said, every religion has had problems and DO have problems. At least the people of the church are trying to deal with the issues.

"The Catholic Church holds no special claim to virtue, no matter how lovely the chants and how aromatic the incense. Get off your moral high horse, buddy."

I never said the Catholic church DID hold any special claim to virtue. I believe that YOU said that we THINK it does. I find it interesting that you want to tell everyone what WE think. I believe that the Nazis did the same thing as well.

BadReligion,

"Don't you believe they just go to "Heaven" anyway?"

Sure they do...but aren't they entitled to life, the same as everyone else? Or do you think otherwise?

Paul in KY,

"While the 'pre-child' is innocent, it's father is a rapist. Therefore this fetus is the product of a piece-of-shit raping scum (and the poor raped woman). Why should society take the chance on allowing this fetus (who is 1/2 a copy of the piece-of-shit raping scum) to be another criminal (like its father has turned out to be)? As another poster above mentioned, they all go to heavan anyway, don't they?"

Well ok then, why not just get rid of all "pre-children" who would be a burden on society...after all, "why should society take the chance on allowing this fetus" to BE a burden on society.

So let's get rid of any children of genetically disabled people, mentally disabled people, and ALL criminals in general...after all, we don't want to have to take the chance on a fetus that is "1/2 a copy of a piece-of-shit" burden on society, now do we?

Confucius Always Say,

"Yes, you're right chiefpayne, that Church you belong to is a precious beacon of morality for us all to admire and emulate!"

You seem to want to pick a fight about the church which ISN'T the point of the article. Fine...you say what you want about the Catholic church.

Now, that we have that out of the way, why do you think abortion is ok?

-- Confucius Always Say