Sorry, I don't take any "conservative" who drives and brags about driving a little red 10 year old Volkswagen.

Pony up the cash, big boy. I'm sure you've got plenty - having had the prerequisite bidnez success to embrace the GOP.

Wait, you DID know that all the star means is that someone paid for a premium membership, right Terkoy-without-the-Star? Or did you think it was Hitler-ish? Your answer to those questions should tell you a lot about yourself.

terkoy and other Bushian level intelligence right wingers love to mock liberals for their "fancy" degrees and intellectualism (as if being smart were a bad thing)...and then mock them for being "stupid" because of submitting the same post twice.

So are we stupid or not?

And you're right about the double clicking. It's often and widely acknowledged as being a sign of stupidity. It's even included on the Mensa test. Those who don't double click are rated geniuses. And as we all know, right wingers are all geniuses...except when they're shagging women who aren't their wives.

Idiots.

DurianJoe says: "for whatever reason, it does take a crisis to get people to wake up".

The reason is natural selection. The fallacy here is the notion that a crisis - natural or man-made civil disobedience - somehow will trigger a permanent sea-change. No matter how extreme the crisis, people will eventually relax from their alert status.

Rather than relying on any permanent revolution - of the left or of the right - a sustainable civilization requires numerous small changes in the simple boring logistics of governance. Markets don't fail because of greed - greed is simply a fact of life. Markets fail because the appropriate feedback and controls weren't engineered into the system.

The lesson the right wing takes from the Tragedy of the Commons is that ownership should extend to the very oceans and atmosphere. The marketplace will then ensure that overfishing is punished since each fish will have a self-enlightened owner. The lesson the left wing takes is to stage another appeal to people's better natures - maybe this time the Republicans will cut a fair deal. An engineer might instead suggest that someone be hired to keep track of the community's fish to prevent overgrazing.

The solution to overfishing is to police the oceans and stops the violators. Relying on corporate good behavior is laughable. For citizens of rich countries to forgo fish in their diet may be the correct personal choice, but is simply not a scalable solution. Organizations like Greenpeace have a role in this, but ultimately a coalition of world governments have to actually spend enough money to solve the problem.

For those who demand a free market answer to every question - the fundamental problem is that corporations never pay - and customer never expect to pay - the full life cycle cost of any item. The degradation of the oceans has a cost. The price of cleaning it up should be shared between the consumers of every fish stick, shrimp and shellfish.

I have not been a Salon premium member for years, but for reasons unknown, the star remains.

I corrected two grammatical errors, which is why I reposted.

You are among the most obtuse of Salon's gang of trolls.

I was just going to write in to say that overfishing was leading us to Soylent Green. Someone's blaming environmentalism for it, though? Whew. I would blame industrial damage, and lack of concern for environmental sustainability, because of impatience with anything that slows the flow of dollars to those making money from such damage.

I'm glad that Britain has finally created good domestic gastronomy. Now that what was formerly their only good dish, Fish and Chips, is about to become Blank and Chips, it would only take another Potato Famine to make it Blank and Blank. But I guess we can all eat "Saffron-infused Oxygen," as they did in the trendy bar on 30 Rock.

A researcher's analysis of five decades of vacationing anglers' snapshots shows that in Key West, the game fish species are getting smaller — a finding pointing to the decline of global fisheries.

Read about it at Miller-McCune.com:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/science_environment/fish-stories-the-ones-that-got-away-1031

then claim ignorance. That's why you see two missives. Are all liberals this stupid?

Pro business fanatics have endlessly supported unregulated fishing (we can't impact our "quality of life" now can we), to the point where science is showing that we are draining the oceans of sea life.

And now, they turn the tables on "greens" and say that it's the "greens" fault, for "rejecting fish farming".

agore,

Please provide proof of where the "greens" have rejected this.

Please explain who you mean when you say "the greens".

Please explain what steps you have taken to move our society to one that relies on farm fish instead of ocean fish.

I guess what's next is for the fishing industry to hire scientists to say that the depletion of fishes is "mankinds greatest hoax" etc.

We've already seen the playbook of the right in the cigarette industry, the petroleum industry, the Bush industry...you name it, and these people have rejected fact for fiction. Now, we're seeing just how evil, and ignorant these people really are.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad that you are reporting this, more people need to hear about it and care, but we are a species that has a functioning denial problem. We just can't really face reality, even when it is getting ready to smack us in the face. Sometimes I personally have to muster the courage to face it, but I prefer the bracing truth. I'm not sure we will be able to figure our way out of this problem. The changes from the top down are always incremental and never strong or clear enough, the changes from the bottom up are slow to happen, too, especially when it goes against an individual's self interest. We sometimes seem to be blindly marching as a species towards creating our own global Easter Island. Although some of us can see there are so many who cover their eyes.