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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
I see a parallel.
When Christianity set out to establish itself as the dominant religion in Europe during the dark ages, the missionaries felt they could assist the cause by co-opting the native pagan beliefs of the masses they were trying to convert. This is why Christmas corresponds so closely to the winter solstice. This is why we have an Easter bunny. This is why the Celtic cross has a circle on it, as a vestige of sun worship. I'm sure you can think of countless other examples.
This struck me as Kauffman's tactic, to a certain extent. He's promoting a secular, non-religious worldview, but he's using the language of religion to promote it. It seems like that fundamentalism disturbs him, and he's hoping to quell the tide by offering nature as a substitute.
But only to those who are English speaking.
are not a distraction from "being spiritual" . Newton's determinism has evolved so far as to posit that "Fields" are a basic idea in Physics. If Consciousness is a field "thing", that goes far to dissipate the paradoxes in the Western Individualistic ,or alienating, scheme, whether "God" or "Materialism". disigny
about the existence of God is about whether "I" feel the existence of God or not. There can be no argument about the existence of God that is objective. All arguments are interpretive, and soooo, who cares? There are three positions in the God debate, and only three. They are "I think God exists," "I don't think God exists", and rare but valuable, "I don't care whether God exists or not." This last is my position.
... is you and other atheists like to put ALL believers in one big melting pot and assume we're all self-righteous holier-than-thou fundamentalists/Taliban mentality-type people. We're not. Some are, granted, some are not ... try to differentiate.
And your last post illustrates EXACTLY what I was talking about ... you're still defining God in the narrow terms of the followers of Christianity/Old Testament, etc. Why continue to take your cue from them? Who asked you to?
And why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? This actually brings up a very interesting point, that few in the West know about (and, for that matter, Muslims themselves). Forget for a minute the tired old stereotypical crap you hear about Islam from your MSM ... for those that actually investigate and read the Qur'an, there are passages that reflect on this very idea of worship:
God does not need us to worship Him, He is entirely self-sufficient. He needs absolutely nothing from us. It is not for His benefit or his need that we pray, treat our fellow man with kindness, etc. It is for our benefit. I've given the Coles Notes version of this concept, for sake of brevity.
Now I know that as soon as I mentioned Islam, the Qur'an (heaven forbid! She mentioned an example of organized religion! And OMG, she might be one of those!!!) most of you tuned out anyway and dismissed anything I had to say. So dismiss away.
I think the article's observation of the ceaseless re-creation of nature is spot on. What it does not, cannot admit is a power external to that of physics or some other human-comprehensible source.
Across time, brilliant people such as St. Augustine and C.S.Lewis (a professor at both Oxford & Cambridge) have had experiences that could not be explained -- for all their brilliance. And that is the problem of revelation -- or as theologian Tom Wright puts it, "The Problem of Paul."
I have met at least 25 persons of all backgrounds, races, education levels & ages who have had these experiences. These are the "unexplainables."
I was a 37-year-old aetheist, with an MBA, speaking 5 languages & traveling the world in the pharmaceutical business. Then one May day at 11:15 AM Jesus Christ showed up in my very plush office; called me by name; and made several startling promises to me.
I went to experts -- I denied this every way I could -- but after 9 years I had to give up a $250k income and become a minister. My family - the folks w/ 1st edition Voltaire in the dining room? Well -- they would have understood if I sold cocaine -- at least you make $$ doing that.
Since then over and over I have met others with equally unexplainable experiences. None of them were interested in or seeking such an experience; and they all have one word in common: REAL. Compared to this experience -- nothing in the universe has the density of organza.
Wish you well dear friends in dis-belief. I was one of you for 37 years.
M.Crandall
Doesn't matter what the world was like (existing with meaning or without) before humans climbed aboard ... as soon as humans entered the scene, the world became a meaningful existence, because all of our behaviour/actions/laws, rules set up prove that.
That, in a nutshell, is the egotism of religion. It's not about god, it's about human beings. Mankind is the ultimate measure. Without Man, the universe is meaningless. Only with human beings crawling around a tiny orb in a backwoods neighborhood of an average galaxy, does the whole vast shebang become important.
It's infantile, really, the me-centered world view of a toddler.
It really is. Reductionist-style scientific method doesn't explain everything right now?! Why then, we must invent something else!
This is a standard human tendency. We both want to believe in our specialness, and in a fundamental purpose. But there is no evidence of either. None. A *scientist* accepts that as the "truth", to be continually tested, of course. Until disproven, the best guess supported by the evidence is taken to be our approximation of reality, and operated upon. It's really just that simple.
Then again, thinking like that doesn't sell books or get page clicks ;].
More intellectual masturbation from a Manichean perspective.
"God," however has nothing to do with it.
(Pssst: It's all in your mind.")
You're not posting in Fundyland. The Qur'an doesn't frighten us. Most atheists know, since they've researched religion more than most believers, that the Qur'an and the Bible share a lot of text. In other words, they're largely the same book.
Spoodles wrote: "And why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? This actually brings up a very interesting point, that few in the West know about (and, for that matter, Muslims themselves). Forget for a minute the tired old stereotypical crap you hear about Islam from your MSM ... for those that actually investigate and read the Qur'an, there are passages that reflect on this very idea of worship"
I assume most of Salon's atheists are familiar with the Bible and Qur'an passages that encourage private worship. So, whereas I was being snarky about worshipping in the closet and employing the language of the homo-bigots, I was also referencing the alleged word of God about faith best being a private affair. Many alleged believers do flaunt faith with jewelry, bumper stickers, and displaying that instrument of torture, the cross, atop steeples. There are no equivalents for atheists. Because it quacks and walks like compensation, it's likely compensation.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Salon headlines in your mailbox
