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Saturday, July 19, 2008 12:00 AM

Does Gotham need Batman anymore?

Stephanie Zacharek and Andrew O'Hehir discuss the box office hit.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Monday, July 21, 2008 12:39 PM

Zacharek on women and comic books

I thought that was a strange thing for her to say too. I wonder if Zacharek is stung by some of the criticisms of her review (and her past reviews). Probably. People are pretty harsh about her reviews sometimes (I am no exception).

I don't think there are really people out there who believe that women can't review or enjoy comic-book movies. Instead, I think people react to Zacharek's reviews because she seems to be predisposed against the genre somewhat.

I, too, am a little predisposed against superhero movies by virtue of the fact that they tend to be redundant. The themes are often the same -- with power comes responsibility, one man can make a difference, etc. They do tap into what is, statisticallly, more of a male fantasy (women are free to fantasize over similar powers, but are less inclined to).

New superhero movies need to offer something more than the above to maintain interest. I am hoping The Dark Knight will do so. I thought Spiderman 3 was pretty good because it tied so many plot threads together. Spiderman 1 was good because it dealt with the standard superhero themes in a pure, direct, and appealing way that had good fun with its pop-culture origins.

Hancock is an OK attempt to comment on superhero themes, although it is pretty schizophrenic about its characters and plot. I can only assume that Hellboy 2 brings so much to the table that it also transcends its genre. The Watchmen movie for next year will likely do the same.

I personally found Tim Burton's take on Batman pretty dull, and actually am one of the few who thought the later Batman films (Val Kilmer, Clooney, etc.) were more tolerable by virtue of being less pretentious....even though they still sucked.

You have to admit, sticking a guy in tights and a cape, giving him powers outside of reality (a form of childlike wish fulfillment), and then trying to tell audiences you're doing something deep and meaningful is ridiculous on its face. You'd better be a hell of a good storyteller to make it work.

Monday, July 21, 2008 11:09 AM

We fought for equality..

...so now we're being told what we can and cannot enjoy? I was extremely offended at Stephanie saying that women aren't supposed to review a comic book movie. Why not? Are we not permitted to like them? Are we too emotional or gentle to get them? As both a woman and a fan of comics, I feel qualified to discuss this film with any one of my guy friends. I never feel like I'm out of place in the "boy's club". To assume that comic book movies are only good for teenage boys is narrow minded on many levels. I am a 27 year old married college graduate, and I will wait in line for a midnight showing of a comic flick long before I'm dragged to a romantic comedy. Sorry to ruin your preconceived notions about what women enjoy.

Monday, July 21, 2008 02:34 AM

Hey

To the guy who invited me over to the site, thanks, I'll check it out.

To the guy calling Stephanie Zacharek middle-aged and Andrew O'Hehir a gay man, you're being a twit. Since neither of them will respond to you or correct your assumptions about them, I will step in and do the fun work of saying: Huh? Do you have some knowledge of O'Hehir's sex life that the rest of us don't? I think he's alluded to having a wife before, but maybe by "wife" he meant "male bondage partner" in some secret gay code. In reality, O'Hehir probably gets six times more lady action than you do, especially now that Farhad Manjoo is gone and all his groupies need somewhere to go and someone to...you know.

As for Zacharek, how do you define "middle-aged"? Are you basing that on a medieval lifespan or something? Do you consider women older than 25 to be over-the-hill? (Is it possible you prefer them aged 9 to 13? Didn't I see you on Dateline NBC?) I think Zacharek looks plenty fresh and count me among those who actually think she's prettier without makeup, or with low makeup, as she seems to be here. She also must use regular doses of moisturizer or something because she's got a nice ocmplexion. Criticize Zacharek's reasons for her opinions all you like, but don't make it personal.

As for what age/gender a reviewer has to be to review particular genres, that's dumb. What, Roger Ebert can't review a movie about thin people? Stanley Kauffmann can't review a kids' film? Pauline Kael can't review the films of Sam Peckinpah?

Anyway, you have to be kidding about gays not reviewing Batman. What could be more gay than superheroes? I'll bet you cruise for a little of the ol' "Marvel Team-Up" when you're at Comic-Con, don't you?

Monday, July 21, 2008 01:04 AM

No offense to anyone...

...but this video-review is what happens when a post-middle-aged-woman and a homosexual male review an action/adventure/comic-book movie intended for straight guys.

I pay for my subscription, so therefore I'm every bit as entitled to my opinion as Stephanie and what's-his-face are to theirs. If there had been a middle-aged heterosexual male reviewing this film alongside those two buffoons, Salon readers would probably reap the benefits of a dude able to behold a more universally representative perspective of the flick. (Salon: please add a coherent straight guy to your staff of film critics.)

Having a woman and a gay man review "The Dark Knight" would be comparable to having a man and a gay woman critique "Steel Magnolias" or the "Secrets of the Blah-Blah Sisterhood," or that Circle of the "Crotch-Stained Jeans" movie. You can't expect any self-respecting movie-goer to seriously consider the reviews from those two cinemaphiles so far removed from the intended audience.

In closing, I'd like to request that Salon get their fucking shit together, and have more appropriate reviewers review more appropriate movies. Come on, what the fuck am I paying for?

Thank you.

-=-

Michael

San Diego, CA

Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:37 AM

Comic Book Movie

I'm slightly puzzled as to the definition of a "comic book movie." Can someone please enlighten me?

Thanks.

Sunday, July 20, 2008 05:54 AM

@ Xrandadu Hutman

Click on my name and find a site where the Batman threads will be weaving in and out for weeks before they unravel. This past week we've pretty much wallpapered the main page with Gotham City news. You'll also find topics still active about WALL-E, Mamma Mia!, the Emmy nominations and lots of other movie and entertainment topics. Clicking your name I see you're a prolific letter writer and the editors are apparently fond of you too. Drop by with some those brilliant insights and you'll find plenty of readers who'll appreciate them.

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