Letters to the Editor
-
Andrew is reviewing a movie Mikes and Victoria
Why does he need to say whether he was shaking with rage at the murder of Americans? That makes no sense. He is reviewing a movie that documents US abuses of prisoners, many of whom are completely innocent. I think all Americans are horrified by the banality of evil that Islamic terrorists have shown, but does that evil not allow us to be disgusted and rage filled when our own government engages in acts that embarrass us across this world, make us less safe, and that have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians and more than 3,300 American troops?
The logic that Andrew cannot be rage filled by our government's actions because Americans have been beheaded is the manifestation of insipid, logic-adverse minds
-
BobBob names me without ever addressing any comment I actually make.
All he talks about are Mikes' comments on American deaths upon which I have said nothing.
"The logic that Andrew cannot be rage filled by our government's actions because Americans have been beheaded is the manifestation of insipid, logic-adverse minds"
Attacking me by baseless, false association, classy BobBob.
My comments were on O'Hehir advocating torture himself. That is a legitimate stab at hypocrisy. If that makes you uncomfortable because you share similar violent revenge fantasies about the Bush-Cheney beast of Salon yore or its Neo-Con Zionist master, then I suggest you look at how hate corrupts liberal values.
-
a_ignatius advocates torture too?
Her/his sarcastic response to me: "You’re right, of course. So true. What a lousy human being Andrew is, that the torture of unconvicted, untried people that aren’t – well, him, fills him with rage. You tell him, Victoria L! That’s not empathy, Andrew, that’s not holding bullies up to the harsh judgment they so richly deserve: that’s you being a self-loathing class–act."
First of all rage is never a noble or constructive sentiment. We all feel but it should not be proudly paraded about as if it were a badge of honour to be so unnuanced in our reactions. Rage means you are seeing things in black and white.
"that’s not holding bullies up to the harsh judgment they so richly deserve"
So you laud O'Hehir's rage at the fate of "unconvicted, untried people" and then attack me for calling O'Hehir a hypocrite when he describes dumping naked "unconvicted, untried people" in the middle of a harsh desert. You deserve a special hypocrisy award, a-ignatius.
O'Hehir's fanatasy solution is short on "judgement" and long on the punishment "they so richly deserve". If you advocate torturing Bush & Co. with or without a trial, don't you become just as bad as all the Right-Wing Fox pundits poo-pooing Abu Gharib?
-
victoria l
2 questions --
"If you advocate torturing Bush & Co. with or without a trial, don't you become just as bad as all the Right-Wing Fox pundits poo-pooing Abu Gharib?"
when did i advocate such a thing?
and are you disputing that detainees - who have not yet been tried - are being tortured?
-
you spoke too soon
you smugly deride andrew for a rage that is neither 'noble' or 'constructive'
after telling him
"that’s you being a self-loathing class–act."
i appreciate your bequeathing the hyposcrisy award to me, but aw, shucks -- i can think of someone else that's better deserving of it.
-
Not even Bush
I share Andrew O'Hehir's rage at the Bush/Cheney policies on torture, but I found it chilling to read the writer's punishment fantasy: "...if this country had any fucking stones we would drag these people out of Washington, strip them of their citizenship and their clothes, and drive them white-baby naked across the Rio Grande to fend for themselves in the Sonora desert."
If the point of the article was to decry torture, O'Hehir sabotages his argument with such disturbingly ironic imagery. On the one hand, he argues eloquently about the need to see our "enemies" as more than just faceless villains deserving of no mercy. In the next breath, he details his cruel version of justice for the perpetrators of the abuse.
I'd be as happy as anyone to see the current occupants of the White House impeached and publicly shamed for their many misdeeds. Just please don't torture them.
-
Victoria, you're just out there
Our government actually did torture people to death, yet you attack Andrew for just saying something as if they were the same. I guess in your world they are.
-
Rob
listen, Rob, if you argue that America may not be the country that was written in all of our social studies books in Jr. High School, you obviously hate this country, hate it's leaders, hate it's people, and should be imprisoned.
The slogan isn't: "America, love it or leave it", anymore. It's "America. Love it or rot in a cell on your way to unholy damnation you liberal scum".
-
since you ask...
"when did i advocate such a thing?"
Well the context of your comment "that’s not holding bullies up to the harsh judgment they so richly deserve" certainly indicates sympathy with O'Hehir's violent fantasy. You condone his rage so you may very well (but hopefully don't) subscribe to O'Hehir's version of judgement for Bush & Co.: kidnapping and torture.
"and are you disputing that detainees - who have not yet been tried - are being tortured?"
I made no comment on that subject and it is dishonest to introduce that idea. You can't defend O'Hehir's sentiments so you manufacture false one's and suggest that I hold them?
And I fail to see how my calling O'Hehir self-loathing and condemning his rage are hypocrisy, but nice try.
-
JediMaster
Oh don't I know it.
The irony is that one of the aforementioned family members was grateful for what "Uncle Joe's" armies did to the Germans, making his job a helluva lot easier (Stars and Stripes covered the progress on the Eastern Front). The other family member, stationed in Bavaria with the rest of Company E of the 101st Airborne, was a little miffed, as were his comrades. He and they felt they'd earned the right kick Hitler's ass in a very up-close and personal way.
Yes...THAT Company E. The reason he's not in Ambrose's book or the HBO miniseries is because he told the research assistant who called him that he didn't want to relive the war, thank you very much.