Letters to the Editor
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grubert...
I called it propoganda and that's what it is. Why are you so childish that you can't admit that?
I'm not saying it shouldn't be shown or talked about.
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Attn: Grubert
I have no McMansion. I have no kids. I don't fear Islamists. I fear Americans who implicitly and explicitly condone America-bashing (despite enjoying it's UNPARALLELED liberties, opportunites, rights and freedoms) and don't speak out against Islamists who would LOVE to cut their head off for living in liberal America.
fyi - if you think bush is conservative, islamists are really really reaaally conservative. but you knew that, right?
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islamist
mikes pace, can you clarify what you mean by 'islamists?' do you mean all muslims? bad muslims? maybe if you can articulate this small matter you won't come off looking so idiotic.
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Mikes
Are you making an argument, or just scribbling RNC manifesto on the wall of your room?
The precise reason I enjoy our unparalleled freedoms is because people stood in the face of government sanctioned tyranny against the people. Something, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Republicans used to stand up for. US Sanctioned torture doesn't give me freedom and safety. It gives me the illusion of freedom and safety.
And Victoria, yeah, some folks got tortured during WWII. And I would like to know if our government, at its highest level, openly rejected the geneva convention and ordered troops to torture and coerce testimony on a grand scale. If you can present me with that evidence, I'll give you that point.
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Tiberius: why do you hate America?
Why do you hate the troops?
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Attn: a_ignatius and jedimaster
I'm defining Islamists as people who are engaging in a revivalist movement whose goal is to impose Sharia as the only system of law for states. I'm also defining Islamists as the group who will use any means necessary (terror, suicide bombings, beheadings, suppressing women) to promote their ultra-conservative Islamic agenda (which is at odds with most Muslim thinking around the world). I define the leader of the Islamist movement as Osama binLaden.
On to jedimaster: "spouting RNC rhetoric"
-No. I am not a republican. They led us into a horribly misguided war in Iraq, and I'm not thrilled with what they've done domestically either. I'm an independant who will most likely vote for Barack Obama. I'm just bringing all of this up because Andrew O'Hehir was fighting mad about how the US has treated enemies and doesn't bring up that Islamists CUT OFF AMERICAN'S HEADS to acheive their goals. That set me off.
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what I can't figure out
I fully expected a fair bit of disagreement and hostility, and as far as that goes I'd rather not simply hear a chorus of amens.
But why is it assumed that Alex Gibney or I or anyone else who is concerned about the United States' calamitous abandonment of constitutional principles and the rule of law somehow has a smoochy attitude toward wacko Islamic terrorists? I guess it's because when you're stuck with a bogus, losing argument you try to shift the terrain as much as possible. But it's pretty much the definition of a false dichotomy. The Cheney crowd got away with this rhetorical smudge for many years. Thankfully it's not quite as easy now.
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Besides...
The wrongs our government commit are our responsibility! Is this so difficult to grasp?
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Andrew:
Did the beheadings of Daniel Pearl or Paul Johnson Jr, or Nick Berg or Eugene Armstrong make you shake with rage?
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Torture is just plain wrong, whoever does it
If the US incarcerates and tortures people to death - I don't care who they are or what they've done - then that is indefensible and shameful.
That is NOT to say Islamic terrorists beheading Americans is somehow right. It is vile and barbaric. And, no, America did not cause these atrocities but it surely made them more likely - why did these murderers dress their victims in orange jump suits before executing them?
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The Dark Side
I belive the real point here is one we were versed in during kindergarden, two wrongs don't make a right. Our current policies toward radical Islam are a self furfilling prophesy. They strike us for being "devils", we torture them and become devils. Can anyone win that kind of war? "All men are created equal.." only counts when we agree? How many lives will be plundered before common sense prevails?
Maybe if the congress voted to remove the security detail from the exectutive branch, we might end up with a president that worked very, very hard, to ensure our security with out envoking war powers or abusing our reputation as a freedom loving country.
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Not mutually exclusive
Andrew never said that his outrage is exclusively reserved for those tortured by the U.S. government. Nor did he say that the beheadings of Americans is not cause for outrage. He is merely commenting on the topic of this particular movie. I feel equally outraged by the senseless torture and killing of ALL people, Americans or non-Americans. Can't we at least agree on that?
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Mikes Pace and WWII
But it was the Soviets who won the war in Europe. They chewed up 200 divisions of the Wehrmact. When the Allies landed at Normandy they faced 80 divisions. Furthermore, Hitler was so obsessed with destroying the Communists that he sent the absolute cream of his various armed forces (especially the SS shock troops and Panzer Grenadiers) into Russia. The Allies faced few such elites.
Near the end of the war in the Pacific, Soviet paratroopers went through the Japanese Kanto Army (a battle-hardened army in China) like it wasn't even there. Had there been no atomic bombs, I'm quite sure they would have made short work of the portion of Japan they invaded.
Sorry.
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Attn: Rob
Don't apologize to me - apologize to all the Americans who won that war. Because you are downplaying their accomplishments.
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right on, victoria l
SAYS VICTORIA--
So let me get this straight O'Hehir is *so* filled with rage (which Andy pretends there is a "constructive" variant thereof) over the US "torture" of detainees that he openly anounces a violent fantasy to kidnap and essentially kill by leaving-for-dead those responsible. No wonder leftists hate Bush with such obsessive intensity because you see yourself reflected in your shared violent, totalitarian leanings. This is how a leftist becomes so distorted with rage that they betrayal liberalism and rational conduct. Really, Andy, did you think your violent revenge fantasy would impress us?
p.s. I also love throwing in the racial marker "white-baby naked". You're a hate-filled, self-loating class-act as always Andrew.
.....You’re right, of course. So true. What a lousy human being Andrew is, that the torture of unconvicted, untried people that aren’t – well, him, fills him with rage. You tell him, Victoria L! That’s not empathy, Andrew, that’s not holding bullies up to the harsh judgment they so richly deserve: that’s you being a self-loathing class–act.