Letters to the Editor
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Maybe we're heading back to a tribal society
Why are people still defending Alec Baldwin? It must be tribalism. He's "one of us" or some crap like that.
Good thing he didn't call anyone "fat" -- now there's an unforgivable sin at Salon.
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Wanna talk about 'Harsh Treatment????'
Talk to Daniel Pearl's family. THAT'S HARSH TREATMENT.
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Why are anonymous people so quick to stone others?
Pretty brave to attack another person under the veil of anonymity. Not a member of government. Not a member of the press or the punditry or the tv talking heads. But let's stone a person, a family going through a difficult time.
What would Jebus do?
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Harsh Treatment?
Speak to a member of Paul Johnson Jr's family. THATS HARSH TREATMENT.
(fyi - these people I'm bringing up were AMERICANS who were BEHEADED in the middle east).
I call beheading 'harsh.'
Salon may have a different definition.
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Harsh Treatment?
Talk to a relative of Nick Berg. THAT'S HARSH TREATMENT.
I don't like what Bush is doing either, but please, let's agree on what 'harsh treatment' is.
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"Shake with rage?"
How about the beheading of Eugene Armstrong, an American Civil Engineer? Does his beheading make you shake with rage Andrew? Does it make you want to go to a safe American bar and drink? Do American beheadings make you 'shake' at all? Or did they deserve it? Let me know what you think.
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Mike Pace
You're starting to piss me off!
Harsh treatment? Since when is it o.k. to do illegal, abusive, harsh stuff just because the other person/country/whatever did even worse stuff?
Since when?
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Yeah, Mikes...
Because saying that we're better than terrorists who behead innocent hostages sets the moral bar really high, right?
/snark
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Oh, come on
I remember all the Nazis we took down into the basement and tortured during the Second World War, because they did, after all -- oh, wait a minute, we didn't. Back then, we were being run by decent men, not by hysterical, evil men like Bush and Cheney.
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Thank you Mikes Pace
I didn't realize that there was only ONE definition of "harsh treatment". Thanks for straightening that out. My conscience is so much clearer now.
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I'm simply reminding people
that the USA is the oldest democracy in the world. The country which saved the world from Hitler. We're the good guys. We set up a goverment by, for, and of the people.
Islamists, on the other hand, JUMP at any opportunity to sever an American's head from his body, any American, combatant, journalist, truck driver, etc... They would also JUMP at any opportunity to drop a nuke on New York or Washington. Or to set off a biological weapon in our subways.
One more time, who are the bad guys?
Is everyone eating crazy pills?
If you are a white America reading this, KNOW that Islamists would LOVE to cut your head off. But you still defend them and shame Bush?? Look, I don't like him either, I'm just asking you to consider our 'opponents,' and their actions.
If you still dislike America so much, you can go to a middle eastern country, such as the ones in which Americans are decapitated, and see how you are treated. (or just see how long you can see.)
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False Dichotomy
But you still defend them and shame Bush??
It is possible to shame Bush and revile the actions of those who behead Americans. Is that so hard to understand?
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beheading and Abu Ghraib, etc
I'd like to note that beheadings didn't start happening in Irq until after news of Abu Ghraib broke. What happened to Nick Berg, roughly 3 weeks after the first photos were made public, was genuinely horrible. Nevertheless, the news delivered around the world was just the period to a sentence:
When the Abu Ghraib scandal first made news, many right-wing commentators here said that they shouldn't have revealed the photos, because they would only embolden the enemy, and result in retaliation. They were only half-right-- don't you think, as communities received their sons back, psychologically and physically scarred, bloodied and broken-- or dead-- that they knew? The pictures only served as confirmation.
The way you prevent "them" from doing horrible things to us and ours is by not doing horrible things to them in the first place, whether directly or through proxies like Israel or Pakistan.
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Mikes Pace II
"But you still defend them and shame Bush??"
O.k., you've just revealed yourself as a true Republican.
Who's defending "them"? I wasn't. I was merely saying that two wrongs don't make a right; we shouldn't stoop to their level; etc. ad nauseam.
In "the oldest Democracy" we have a right to criticize our government without being accused of all sorts of vile stuff.
If you think my point is wrong, use your brain and tell me why. Make your argument. Don't just call me unpatriotic or whatever.
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Jim H - Ignorant Salonista
"I remember all the Nazis we took down into the basement and tortured during the Second World War, because they did, after all -- oh, wait a minute, we didn't. Back then, we were being run by decent men, not by hysterical, evil men like Bush and Cheney."
Actually do some reasearch on American treatment of German civilians and POWs during and after WWII and then come back with your mighty historical pronouncements. Especially look into the US handing over POWs to the Soviets. The paralells with those modern events which make Salonistas "shake with rage" should be glaringly obvious.
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see "mikes"
If you are comparing what our government does in the name of freedom and security to what groups of thugs and terrorists do then you've pretty much already made our point for us.
Would you rather be a "suspected terrorist" in whatever unnamed prison we've set up to replace Abu Ghraib or an American captured by Islamic terrorists. Two to three years of torture followed by either possible release or death(if they just decide "forget" they have you in custody) OR ... 4-5 weeks of torture followed by near certain death. We'd all probably choose the U.S. prison experience and hope but the idea that there is any moment of pause when choosing between the two is what is so upsetting.
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Are we to lower ourselves to the level of radical Islamists?
We are supposed to be a country governed by the rule of law. Ours is not supposed to be a country of an "eye for an eye." When we lower our standards, when we torture and kill behind closed doors, before determining guilt or innocence, we are no better than the radical terrorists who claim to kill in the name of God and religion.