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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
I laughed at the rejoinder to Schroedinger's Cat, "Ah yes, just yesterday I remember hearing about that woman in pakistan who was stoned to death, because she misspoke about Schroedinger's Cat."
Thanks, very funny. But I think, too, there's something in what the original poster said. Many profound truths in the natural and philosophic realm defy common sense because they defy easy dis-integration into parts. Aristotle described a mode of logic with the law of identity (A=A), and the law of the excluded middle (A, or not A), which left Western thinking collapsed in a heap of jello everytime it hit a paradox. No problem for Aristotle, himself, who had caveats and other excellent modes of thought... but the rest of us are so locked into the one, syllogist, mundane mode of thinking that we can't even get our heads around easy hermeneutics like the tetralemma, eg, A, not A, both A and not A, not both A and not A. But it's called metaphysics for a reason.
S's Cat is of that ilk, as are transcendental, ultimate truths. They are thought experiments that reveal truth. That's all religions are, people: helpful thought experiments. Many believe them to be divine in origin. I agree with the Talmud scholars, that God is a distant hypothesis, but also with Wittgenstein, who said, "Darüber man nicht sprechen kann, muß man schweigen." The intellectual differences between the beliefs of a thoughtful atheist, a theist, a Buddhist and a Jew are infinitismal -- slightly different trust issues. God, self/no-self, Atman only appear to be widely different concepts. There is nothing inherently illogical about the Holy Trinity, either, or immaculate conception, except to a particularly form of literal, discursive logic. It's not even a speedbump in the road compared to Hindu logic puzzles. Ever tried singing Vedic chant?
Still, enlightened is as enlightened does. And I think calling religious followers universally idiots discredits Bill Maher more than the subtle intellects and humanists who found serenity and beauty in the contemplative life. Thich Quang Duc, the Vietnamese monk who self-immolated in 1963, remaining composed for the minutes his flesh burned, was in his actions evidently a Boddhisattva, one who has attained enlightenment, but remains to help others along the path. The historical Jesus, and certainly many of the saints, seem also to have been enlightened beings. Buddhism divided into two schools over the question of the Gautama Buddha's divinity; the early Christian church had similar schisms. Less than a hair's breadth of difference exists between perfect and divine. Deciding, a priori, that God does not exist because you hate Republicans is very different than concluding, after much study, debate and contemplation, that God does not exist because it is not useful for Him to exist. The problem for the modern atheist is he too easily dismisses theological notions as primitive superstition, mistaking a charicatured form for the substance, and then too readily congratulates himself on his perspicuousness.
I don't blindly follow anyone, but I praise and am warmed by the existence of saintly examples and boddhisattvas.
peace
its simple as pie.. law removes criminals
From society for the good the majority.
God will not let sinners in His kingdom
after they died they cannot enter
for the good the majority.
The sinless life and death of Jesus abrogates our
sentence for sinning
“exile from kingdom of God forever.”
under one condition! People must
repent/stop sinning to enter Gods kingdom
Openairpreacher utube
I like people who are not afraid to say what is in their hearts and examines their surroundings out loud! Too bad that out there are people who feels threaten because he may be right and their faith is not as strong as it should be...so it is easy to dismiss Bill Maher...I cannot wait until Friday to see "Religulous."
I am appreciating your response. I have watched Maher for years. He keeps me on my toes. (Such a corny expression, but so be it.) On most things, I agree with him. On most things, even if I don't agree, I laugh or at least "get it" and think further, on myriad topics. I know my own sense of spirituality and religion and everything thereof, and my own ain't typical. I don't always lean toward how far Maher goes in yanking on religion/spirituality, but I know where he comes from, and I rarely (count on one hand) take it offensively.
My perhaps less-than-level-headed response prior to yours was specifically directed to O'Hehir's comment about our having a Muslim candidate, which I didn't think rose to Maher's level of irony or satire, or, if I daresay, his beliefs, thus the O'Hehir comment failed, to me, miserably.
Maher has certainly found his niche, but it's a lot like shooting fish in a barrel. The attitude is certainly cynical and overbearing enough for the times, as well, but I can't help thinking after awhile it will become tiresome. It's a low road to keep throwing stones at religion. There are too many decent people who base their lives on it, and screaming at them that they are a bunch of fools is obnoxious.
That Barack Obama, Joe Biden and John McCain are untainted by this religion thing.
Maybe they can protect us from that Christian Sarah Palin.
Hey, didn't that phony sky god give some people a deed to a piece of property thousands of years ago? What nonsense!
Salon - The Mighty Queen of the Tabloids!
Never trust ANYONE who uses the word BELIEVE to convince you of anything.
I learned long ago that it is pointless to try to argue a person into rationality. Whether they be mentally ill, anti-social, politically extreme, or just plain old religious, there's no way to force them to make sense. The majority of humans seem to be hard-wired toward tribalism, toward unshakeable beliefs which bind them together and impart, at the least, a sense of community.
Even here on Salon, many of the comments, even from Andrew O'Hehir, fly in the face of rationality. For one, I very much doubt Bill Maher would have any trouble dissecting the flawed logic of any theologian, but apparently Mr. O'Hehir needs to believe that he would. And all the comments here saying "Oh, Maher's not talking about me or my religion. My beliefs make sense." Uh, maybe to you, but not to most (or any) other people.
And that's the gist of what Maher is saying. Those of you who are attacking him are really just screaming: "Stop making sense!"
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
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