How about Pope Pius ignoring the holocaust? That's some moral leadership there.

They are gonna saint that jerk soon. I gotta turn in my Catholic card; any club that would let Gibson and Santorum in, I want no part of...

I could not possibly agree more with what Been There, Done That wrote some pages back (and you'll have to forgive me if it's been totally hashed out by this point, I haven't got time to read everything). I too have an evangelical mother, who, while very sweet and totally harmless herself, subscribes wholly to a certain final book of the New Testament. These people totally and sincerely believe in Revelations the apocalypse, I cannot stress this enough. I have attempted all manner of rational assault on my mom's convictions, and may as well have been throwing rocks at the moon for all the good it's done. You can attempt to show how the book is a product of its time and relates entirely to the Roman Empire, and how many scholars agree that this John character (almost certainly NOT the original disciple) quite clearly intended to point out Nero as "the Beast", and how it was really just a rallying cry for a persecuted minority. No luck. You can attempt to reason that overattention to Revelations is a fundamental perversion of the "true word" of Christ, as expressed in the Sermon on the Mount. Won't matter.

The fact is, they see the existence of the State of Israel as a necessary precursor to the Rapture and the end times bullshit, which also happens to involve any number of supposed horrors, and ultimately casting non-believers, Jew prominently included, into the Lake of Fire.

I'd go on, but I remembered a recent episode of The Sopranos wherein Hesh put this perfectly in a single quip:

"Unnamed lady: You can disagree with the evangelicals but they're great friends of the Jews. They believe Israel is the holy land.

Hesh: Just wait."

>>The challenge was to come up with 10 MOVIES about Orthodox Judaism.>>

Avalon, Exodus, Sophies Choice, The Merchant of Venice (a dozen versions), Lies my Father told me, Yentl, Divan, Holy Land, Keeping the Faith, The Jazz Singer, The Diary of Anne Frank, Mermaids, Holocaust, Schindler’s list, Once Upon a Time in America, Trembling before God, Brighton beach Memiors, etc.

If Mel Gibson is a relapsed alcoholic, what he rants drunkenly at the point of arrest is irrelevant.

Yes, you can and will be held responsible for what you say and do when blind drunk, but it doesn't mean the sobered up person would have said or done (or even thought) the same things.

Alcohol is a liar and it seeks to destroy the alcoholic who has no control once he has the first drink. Addiction factoid, unsavoury though that may be to some (who don't understand it).

Mel Gibson is clearly a troubled man with an illness and this coupled with his fervent religious beliefs (not to mention the fact he may be bipolar) means he is far from perfect and prone to lapses in judgement.

USA is always looking for a target. USA has become condemning of any transgressions, abberations.

We are expected to be without contradiction, perfectly behaved and almost zomboid or robotic. None of which is human.

Human flaws are not allowed in our 'great nation' the 'greatest nation on earth'.

The general public in the USA is always looking for someone to lynch. Maybe it takes our attention off ourselves?

Re-Cucumber Sandwiches:

Nice sarcasm; but once 6 Million people die; you can't turn a blind eye to even drunken rantings.

Gibson is a racist punk who needs to be called on the carpet for this thing.

"Anyone else see the striking resemblance between Mel and Saddam (post-Enduring freedom, but pre-trial)?"

Yes! I was thinking he looks like the Unabomber. Or sort of Hassidic, even. Oy!

Thank god I'm an athiest...

and related to that, every single really drunk person I have been around will blab from their deepest place in the dark well of the psyche, usually consistent with their "above ground" life themes. I myself have been drunk and sure enough my deepest insecurities consistent with who I am come to the fore. And then I always throw up.

Doesn't everybody have a bit of the racist in them? I will admit to having to stop and think about my prejudices or immediate reactions at certain triggers in my life. Mel Gibson's remarks were so off-the-charts bigoted and creepily sexist, I can't believe that he doesn't feel these things in his waking/sober life.

And not that it's an excuse of any kind, but parents' opinions about things do matter, and I can't imagine the drum beat of anti-semitism that must have permeated the Gibson household all those years. It would take some courage and independence to get beyond that kind of upbringing and a shame-filled alcoholic desperately clinging to pre-Vatican II Catholicism is NOT that person in my opinion.

It's the patriarchy and I blame it, and Mel (to steal from Twisty's blog.)

P.S. I'm kind of waiting for Mel Gibson to blame this whole thing on the Lebanon situation...

This really illustrates how deeply ingrained the problems are. "Monicagate" wasn't about anything other than a private interaction between 2 or maybe 3 (depending on how you look at it) people which was none of anyone elses business. To equate this with actual abuse is a good illustration of the problem.

I am so sick of Christ right now, if I see another Jesus bumper sticker or stupid fish, I'm going to throw up. I'm a Jew, thank you very much, converted by choice. What really kills me is that people have written about how Christians are persecuted on this blog! Pleasssssssssse, what bullshit. Remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust???? Hitler used God a lot in the beginning to incite the masses against the Jews and anyone else who disagreed with him. Sound familiar. Facism at its best and we are seeing it again right now.

Do you know how many people have died because of Christ's supposed rebirth!!! The Catholic Church has killed and killed and killed in the name of Christ - women, children, it doesn't matter. Millions of women were killed throughout history by the Catholic Church because they were healers. wise women of means - in other words a threat to the Catholic Church.

We call ourselves modern people, but as Mel Gibson's remarks point out, we really haven't come very far at all. That asshole (Gibson) just has the money and power to spew his hatred to millions and millions. As a matter of fact, we have our very own full-blown Inquisition going on in the US right now with Bush and the Evangelicals.

Make no mistake, these are very dangerous times for any "non-believers." Remember, the quote from the Holocaust that went something like this.. they came for the Gyspy's, but I wasn't a Gyspy so I did nothing, they came for the homosexuals, but I wasn't a homosexual so I did nothing, they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew, so I did nothing. But then, they came for me and it was too late.

I like being a Jew, it differentiates me from people like Gibson, Bush and the Evangelicals. I can't think of a group I despise more!

Pam