I love when an article prompts a large (and harshly opinionated) response.

First of all, some people seem to want to write off Mel's comments because he was drunk. Drinking alcohol lowers people's self-senors and inhibitions. The actions that people take and, especially the things that they say, when drunk are usually their true thoughts and feelings that don't get expressed when sober because we all have self-senors. If a person becomes very angry when drunk, that usually means they have a lot of repressed anger that is not getting expressed in a healthy way. So, to write-off what he said because he was drunk, isn't acceptable.

There may or may not be a lot of articles about religion, but this story is about religion because Mel is a devout Catholic, who doesn't believe that Vatican II was legimate and has used his faith to deal with his addictions. That last statement sounds very familiar to a certain President. Mel has also had a "rumored" history of anti-Semitism. Like it or not, his current behavior makes news.

As for Catholic Bigotry in the media, I don't see it. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools, but am no longer a practicing Catholic. I personally hold no bitterness towards the Catholic church and loved a lot of the traditions growing up, but when I got to college and learned more of the history of Religion in the world and the Catholic Church, particularly, I started to question my own faith. I have met, in my life, a lot of lapsed Catholics who went through the same process and many of them work in the entertainment industry. For some writers, writing about what you know is the most fulfilling and easiest thing to do, so you may have writers writing about the Catholic Church and their own personal experiences in it. Writing about this history isn't bigotry. Bigotry is to say that "all Jews are bankers" or "Jews are responsible for all wars" or "all Catholics are Irish and drunks". I didn't see this article as being anti-Catholic or about too much about religon.

I did pick-up a lot of projection in the postings.

"What happened then would not happen now."

The last Magdalene Asylum laundry closed in 1996. That's not exactly Cold War, pre-Vatican II. That was ten years ago.

A mornic ACTOR says stupid and hateful things and Gabler can't wait to tie it into Bush. I support Bush and am an atheist. I won't be running to see anymore Gibson movies. And I think Gabler will find that Americans, republican and conservative, will make him pay in the same way.

Gabler should go back to reviewing movies since his poliical analysis sucks.

...wow, Will, who'da thought you could be wrong about everything -- including my gender?!?

As for your list, you have one movie that deals with Orthodox Jewish life, and one TV show that deals with Mormonism.

Then you mention Curb your Enthusiasm, which has also gone after Catholics and just about every other religion, and is a perfect example of an equal-opportunity, genuine satire. Ditto for The Life of Brian, and South Park. They go after everybody, to their credit.

The challenge was to come up with 10 MOVIES about a specific Protestant sect and and 10 about Orthodox Judaism. (It's quite easy to come up with 10 about Catholicism, along with TV shows, plays, songs, articles, celebrity rants, etc.) I thought it was understood, but apparently not by you, that these should be movies where these groups were the sole recipients of attacks--not just part of scattershot religious satire.

You came up with one TV show specifically about Mormons, and one movie about Orthodoxy Judaism, which didn't portray anybody as a raving wacko or criminal, although yes, it was certainly an unflattering portrayal generally. Your math is as bad as your "satire." You also seem to lump all Protestants together in a single blur. Apparently your ignorance extends beyond Catholicism.

...that the ad that pops up at the bottom of this discussion for me is:

"Save on The Passion by Mel Gibson

Get 4 exciting Christian books for 99¢. Join Crossings Book Club."

Uh, I'll pass, thanks.

Now you've crossed the line into fiction...if you don't believe in some magical being in the sky, how can you believe in that idiot?

I thought an athiest would have the sense to see that Bush is nothing but a cartoon.

Interesting "the right wing in George Bush's increasingly hate-filled America won't" shun Gibson for anti-semitic ravings. Then tell me why George Bush and Condi won't call for an immediate cease fire from Isreal. They are anti-semitic? I doubt it. Or at least it has nothing to do with their war loyalty.

But the Isreali war/holocaust of choice with Lebanon certainly has me upset (to say the least). I am furious with Isreal for their failure to observe basic human rights. But I am intimidated enough to not say "the Jews" ignore basic human rights and are pursuing a holocaust. No, I have to say "the Isrealis". How is that different? It's like not saying N_g_r if complaining about behaviour of a black person or group of blacks. Why can't I say the Jews are killing too many civilians? They are, but it's not George Bush's right wing that are opposing it, they are enabling it.

"Okay, since we're hiding anti-Catholic bigotry behind thinly veiled sophistry now, I challenge you to name one other religion that has been subject to so much, ahem, "criticism" and "satire" in movies, songs, plays, celebrity rants, etc. as the Catholic Church has."

Ummm... ever heard of Judiasm? Plenty of satire about that, too...

Stop whining already, you sound like my Aunt Peggy whose been whining about how everyone has been out to get the Catholics since Al Smith lost his run for President. Catholic self-pity is just SO lame. Get over it already! Save the embarassing victimology for the Ancient Order of Hibernians. LOL

What happened then would not happen now."

The last Magdalene Asylum laundry closed in 1996. That's not exactly Cold War, pre-Vatican II. That was ten years ago.

******

I was not speaking of the institution itself but the abuses that occured inside the institution. All of those interviewed for the documentary and the movie relate instances from the fifties, sixties, and a few from the seventies. At that time women who were perceived as "sinners" went there to have their children and then work as drudges for "penance". Post that period, the homeless, the divorced, the un-wed mothers, etc were placed and also voluntarily went to these laundries.

Eventually, as these atrocities were uncovered they started shutting down. Due to institutionalization that occurs many of the women who had been abused chose NOT to leave, which is more pathetic than I can ever imagine. It is more heartbreaking than the fact that they were imprisoned as youths against their will, because it means as adults they did not know other than that life and chose to stay on. However, there are prisoners who feel uncomfortable in the general populace as well and my heart breaks for them, as well.

When politics were in favor of shutting them all down the last remaining "laundry" closed its doors. The politic system of Ireland, as well as the politics of the Church were in motion to prevent such an occurance from happening--even if it weren't altruism and was simply cover-your-ass-ism this would not occur now.

When I say it could not happen now, I mean, were something like this to happen...the Church would begin to move on the issue and do as they have done for the problems with pediphile priests. Were we slow, yes, but my point was we are a large church and have all the same problems and issues as a nation. Very slow to make change to the bottom tier.

But again, when your life is judged, Kate, do you want it to be judged solely on your foibles, your flaws, and you crimes--do you want to be judged for things that you do as a child, a teen, or an adolescent? Or would you like to be judged on who you grew into, what sort of person you became, and have your features weighed along side of your flaws.

I'm not saying the Church is perfect. If it was, I would not or could not see myself joining it as I am not perfect. We grow together.

You have not yet pointed out one decent thing the church has accomplished, whereas I have acknowledged where we have fallen. How balanced is that?

Should Bill Clinton be forever remembered only for Monica-gate? He was an authority figure who set himself up in a position of extreme power. He had good points and bad. Should Martin Luther King, JR be remembered for being a philanderer? Should John F. Kennedy be remembered for only getting us into Vietnam?

Entities are no different. The same country that held slaves, that poisoned the Indians, also grew into the country that rejected Jim Crowe, decided in favor of public education, and put 15 billion into a global aids fund.

Look, I get that you are anti-Catholic, and I understand that you do not see that the Church does any good, or rather that the bad of the past outweighs the good of today. I understand that you do not perceive us as growing up, or in the growing process, but we are more complex than that. Good people do bad things. Bad people do good things. There are no true absolutes in life.

In fact, the church of today has periodicals which go against the infallibility of the Pope and that is a HUGE change.

I believe that you are a good person who cares deeply about women and their suffering. Please, try and understand that you are not alone.