I don't think that the FBI is as involved in political spying as you guys fear. There would be to much potential for a Sybil Edmonds to emerge and blow the whistle. NSA datamining on the other hand seems to be just as ripe for abuse, more capable of collecting a lot of dirt with little effort, is more thoroughly covert and they appear to be expending a lot of energy (and risking lots of credibility) defending the practice.

Yet in hundreds of cases (at least), the FBI sought these records even though there was no pending investigation to which the records related. That means that there were no limits on the telecommunications records which the FBI sought and obtained.

Apologists for the administration will once again paint this as a case of wanting to grant civil rights to terrorists. But it is clear, that what the FBI is doing is taking a proceedure designed to catch terrorists, and laziliy applying it to anybody they have an interest in. History has shown that it doesn't take much to draw the interest of the FBI (Just ask Greenpeace, PETA or the ACLU.)

At talking out both sides of my mouth...all I can say in defense is that I finished Joe Conason's book in the meantime. I'm more willing now to ascribe actual malice to the FBI as a result!

Having now subscribed for Salon Premium I'll not go back. (unless they drop Glenn at which point I'll be gone in a flash!)

to mimic nabalzbbfr.

His innate sense of decency prevents it.

To me, the idea that they've completely changed their standards of behavior based on whose doing the behaving, is important to point out but is nevertheless unsurprising. What gets me more about this particular scandal is the fact that they lied repeatedly under oath when they didn't even need to. It's as if lying to Congress is a reflex as unavoidable as sneezing.

The fact that, as is repeatedly being stated, the US attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, then the firings, though suspicious (based on the scuttling of ongoing investigations and the punishment for failure to mount inappropriate ones), were in fact pefectly legal. Certainly Gonzoles is suficiently mealy-mouthed to have been able to say, "we didn't feel that the current appointees were sufficiently attuned to the administration's priorities and wanted to bring in people who were more responsive" Poof...end of non-scandal.

But instead....

Well, as they say, the rest is History.

The reason this is a scandal is because the AG Lied To Congress

If the actual firings were excusable then there should have been no need to Lie To Congress

Arguing about whether Clinton did it too or whether Reagan started it distracts from the question of why the AG found it necessary to Lie to Congress.

I'm sticking to my theory that it was simple force of habit.

the cheap and lazy cliches that otherwise frame everything they write

I wonder if Jerry Reubin and Abbie Hoffman knew that they would be trotted out as typical examples of antiwar thought 40 years after the fact?

While the war-cheerleaders are almost always guilty of overgeneralizing and painting with a broad brush when the refer to "the left" or "Muslims", they are far less inclusive when they refer to "America". In fact their America is shrinking to the point where it will soon encompass less than 1/4 of Americans!

Jim:

You can't change other people; you can only change yourself, the way you react to others, the way you deal with others."

Those who complain that we point out America's faults but ignore those of our enemies miss the point completely. We focus on America because as Americans, that's the one place where what we say might actually make a difference.

Michael:

Maybe a concerted effort should be made to counter the right-wing claims on "America," "Americans," etc. They clearly DON'T speak for a majority of US citizens.

Can't be said oftem enough. America means all of us and there's no one on this planet who can take away MY claim to be a loyal American.

I've said it before. As Americans, our loyalty is to the Constitution of the United States. Those who would abrogate the Constitution are the traitors. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Please have a seat......

The snark technician will be with you shortly to help with the malfunction occasioned by Mona and mbf's recent posts.

Don't be surprised by your imminent comeuppance

The major's going to have to work harder than that to one-up the genuine article.

but worse still, all-out attacks on those who warned of the dangers of allowing the Executive to exercise unchecked surveillance and other powers over Americans

For years, apologists have conflated following the rules with aiding the enemy. They were full of it then and they're still full of it. I'd have a lot more faith, if any of these efforts were resulting in the arrests of terrorists but of course they're not. They're simply resulting in multiple fishing expeditions (and as was revealed a while back) mountains of useless leads wasting time that could be much better spent.

of both the paleoconservative group and the post about "principled republicans" to be interesting. The paleos, as Glenn points out, have been telling anyone who will listen that our Constitution was being trashed for pretty much as long as its been happening. Republican congresscritters, on the other hand have had plenty of opportunity to show their principles and have failed to do so for six full years now.

Glenn has of course covered this issue extensively:

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/09/arlen-specter-is-lying-about-his-own.html

I for one, think that the tide is turning rather nicely and I'm not opposed to finding allies on the right side of the spectrum (or the aisle), but as always, we'll have to wait and see....

by citing the Constitution

Shooter knows how things oughta be and thats all there is to it.....