I watched the movie "Judgement at Nuremberg" last night and it seems apropo to the discussion. Burt Lancaster's character was a german judge that went along with the Nazi regime. He ordered the castration and execution of people he knew where innocent. He tells the american judge that found him guilty, that he never thought his actions would lead to the murder of millions. Spencer Tracy, who played the american judge, said you started the process the day you convicted the first man you knew was innocent. So it began when Gen. Myers shut down those members of the military that questioned the legality of the new interrogation techniques. It began when DOJ lawyers found "legal" cover for the administration to engage in torture. It began in a myriad of ways, but they were all the same moral failure. When asked to engage in torture, the only acceptable answer was NO. The required answer was NO. There were those that did just that, they said no. They resigned their positions. They can sleep well at night, knowing their hands aren't dirty. While those like Gen. Myer's that now prospers with his blood money, I wonder how they can sleep at all.

One of the common refrains in post WW2 Germany, was that we didn't know what Hitler was doing. The German people didn't know what was happening to the jews. However it was more like they didn't want to know what was happening. Fast-forward to present day America, are we any much different? Most people don't know and don't want to know, what our gov't is doing to the "terrorists". Then there are those that make the same excuses the Germans did, it was done out of necessity. The country was under attack by communists and subversives. Just change the names of those being tortured to terrorists and there you go. Only difference between the US and Nazi Germany, is that we have a "free" press that should be informing us of these atrocities done in our name. Yet the MSM tends to over report the trivial, while under reporting the serious. Who needs state-controlled media? When corporate-controlled media serves the same function, while maintaining the illusion of a "free" press.

Watched Olbermann's special comment tonight and here's his fatal flaw. He says that Bush can't pardon everyone because it would be an admission of guilt. So if he issues pardons, it will tell the world that he's guilty. Well to that I say, do you think Bush gives a rat's ass about what people think of him? Do you think that's going to stop him? I say no, he's going to pardon everyone and make sure he won't ever see one day in jail. Then to top it off, he'll make millions giving speeches and living off our tax dollars after leaving office. But Olbermann while it was clear he was excusing Obama for voting for this FISA bill, he did make it clear it was Obama's choice. He said either way Obama votes, he's going to get smeared by the right. So in a way, I think Olbermann was saying he should vote against the bill. If you are going to take the hit, you might as well do it for the right reasons.

Heres the thing spacedogg, Bush doesn't care about what anyone thinks of him. He hasn't cared what the American people have thought of his policies the last 7.5 years. His refusal to change course on Iraq is proof of that. As for the difference between Nixon and Bush. Nixon, while completely ruthless and criminal, had atleast some sense of honor. Nixon resigned once it became untenable to stay in office. He resigned because he knew the fate of the country, was more important then Richard Nixon. Bush has no honor. He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him. He's going to do what's best for Bush, and everyone else can go to hell. But if he was to make the bet that Obama wouldn't prosecute him, I think he'd be right. Obama isn't going to prosecute Bush or anyone else from his administration. Obama is going to want to focus on getting his legislative goals enacted. He doesn't want anything to distract from that. Plus the RW'ers would scream to high heavens about how Obama was engaging in political prosecutions.

I have to ask what Obama thinks he is accomplishing by dissing Moveon.org and Wesley Clark? What does he think he's accomplishing by attacking those that stood up to the Vietnam war in the 60's? Well if it's trying to kill off his biggest supporters, I think he's succeeding beyond his expectation. Republicans never diss their base. You'll never hear them criticize the far-right christian theocrats. You'll never hear them criticize the "free market absolutists" businessmen. Well democrats eat their own, I guess.

PS Cinzia not voting for president, is the same as voting for McCain. Give Obama your vote. You don't have to like everything he does, but he'll represent you better then McCain will.

Well this should be a warning to any and all muslims in this country. With the passage of the new FISA bill, any muslim that calls or emails anyone overseas, you better watch what you say or write. You're communications will be monitored, that's just a given now.