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harpie

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 03:18 PM

Timothy3

A few weeks ago, someone posted the link to a Scott Horton article which included part of the text of a John Donne Easter Sermon from 1672.

"St Augustine moves a question, and institutes a disputation, and carries it somewhat problematically, whether torture be to be admitted at all, or no. That presents a fair probability which he says against it. We presume, says he, that an innocent man should accuse himself, by confession, in torture. And if an innocent man be able to do so, why should we not think that a guilty man, who shall save his life by holding his tongue in torture, should be able to do so?

And then, where is the use of torture? It is a slippery trial and uncertain (says Ulpian) to convince by torture. For many says (says St Augustine again) he that is yet but questioned, whether he be guilty or no, before that be known, is, without all question, miserably tortured. And whereas, many time, the passion of the Judge, and the covetousness of the Judge, and the ambition of the Judge, are calamities heavy enough upon a man that is accused. If the Judge knew that he were innocent, he should suffer nothing. If he knew he were guilty, he should not suffer torture. But because the Judge is ignorant and knows nothing, therefore the prisoner must be racked and tortured and mangled.

[...]

"In which tortures, the Inquisition hath found one way to escape the generall clamour of the world against them, which is to torture to that heighth, that few survive, or come abroad after, to publish, how they have been tortured."

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/JohnDonne&CISOPTR=3215&REC=5

Thursday, July 2, 2009 03:52 PM

The CIA report contains descriptions of the contents of the destroyed torture videotapes.

February 2003 - CIA lawyer Scott W. Muller told members of the House and Senate Oversight Committees about the CIA’s interest in destroying the interrogation tapes. [119]

May 2003 - CIA “Office of Inspector General reviewed the videotapes” of detainee interrogations. See May 7, 2004. [54] On March 2, 2009, a letter to the judge overseeing FOIA litigation reveals that ninety-two CIA interrogation video tapes were destroyed, and that this information is included in the CIA Office of Inspector General’s Special Review Report [111] [119]

May 7, 2004- CIA Office of Inspector General [John Helgerson] issues the report on its review of CIA “Counterterrorism, Detention and Interrogation Activities, September 2001-October 2003” [54] Jane Mayer says: “[Helgerson] was “called in by Cheney to discuss his tough report […] proving that Cheney knew even then of the allegations […] The report had been described as very disturbing and full of terrible descriptions of mistreatment.” Scott Horton: “it appears as a result of these [Helgerson/Cheney] meetings the IG’s report was simply shut down” [55] and “All the indicators are that the CIA’s inspector general found that the extraordinary renditions program was unlawful and he demanded accounting for it. […] Freeing up the inspector general to finish his review and render a final report would be an obvious next step.” [58] For Richard Clarke’s views on Rendition see [59] On March 2, 2009, a letter to the judge overseeing FOIA litigation reveals that ninety-two CIA interrogation video tapes were destroyed, and that this information is included in the CIA Office of Inspector General’s Special Review Report [111] Helgerson’s report was opposed by Scott Muller, Counsel to the Clandestine Service. Muller attended a meeting at the WH with Gonzales, Addington and [NSC lawyer] Bellinger, in which possible tape destruction was discussed. [119]

May 31, 2005 - Comey tells Gonzales: “[…] it was simply not acceptable for Principles to say that everything that may be “legal” is also appropriate. […] I told him it would all come out some day and be presented in the way I was presenting it. I mentioned that I had heard there was a video of an early session which would come out eventually. […]” [151] In November 2005 the CIA destroys 92 interrogation tapes. [119]

November 2005 - CIA Clandestine Service Director Jose A. Rodriguez Jr. orders the destruction of CIA interrogation tapes. [119] These tapes had been discussed in the report filed by the CIA IG on May 7, 2004. See also March 2, 2009.

December 7, 2007 - The New York Times reports that hundreds of hours of videotapes of the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah had been destroyed by the CIA in 2005. [16] [See March 28, 2002, May 2002 and March 27, 2007]

March 2, 2009 - In a letter to the federal judge overseeing Freedom of Information Act litigation in New York, Acting U.S. Attorney Lev Dassin writes: “The CIA can now identify [that] ninety-two [interrogation] videotapes were destroyed. This information is included in the CIA Office of Inspector General’s Special Review Report. […] The CIA will unredact this information […]” [111] See May 2003 and May 7, 2004.

Sources:

http://www.webdsi.com/jebbie/tline.html

Thursday, July 2, 2009 04:17 PM

You're quite welcome, Timothy3

It's eerie how words written so long ago, can be so timely.

I don't think that bit was in Horton's article, but to me, it's most apropos for US. [It WAS a little difficult getting through the wierd spellings, though.]

Thursday, July 2, 2009 04:55 PM

@thelastnamechosen

Very nice research! Thanks.

Thursday, July 2, 2009 05:13 PM

Scuzza Man

Just want to say I very much appreciate the potent literary references.

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