ondalette: “Besides, these guys believe they will be back in power soon, and can reclassify whatever they have to…”

That’s because it’s all happened before…not only were they not punished for Iran-Contra-they got themselves back into power and did it all over again.

Sysprog brought Cheney up at the end of the last thread in relation to something Andrew Sullivan wrote today [?] I wrote a rather lengthy response...not anything most of you don't know already, though. I won’t repeat it but here’s the link if anyone’s interested [wrt: Dissolving the Constitution]:

http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/12/20/marcus/permalink/8031ee2fbbca23939f7b6a323c54ac27.html

Executive Order 13233 might also be important to remember:

AS for de/reclassifying, Bush and the Cheney Gang had this all under control by November 2001. With Executive Order 13233 they have declared themselves the “deciders” of whether or not to refuse to release papers of any former President, conveniently protecting [just in time] Reagan and Bush I Administration members.

Executive Order 13233, signed Nov. 1, 2001.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011101-12.html

“Sec. 9. Establishment of Procedures: This order is not intended to indicate whether and under what circumstances a former President should assert or waive any privilege. The order is intended to establish procedures for former and incumbent Presidents to make privilege determinations.”

[See: “Bush keeps a grip on Presidential Papers” NYT:] “The five-page executive order, drafted by the White House counsel Alberto R. Gonzales, would give either an incumbent president or a former president the right to withhold the former president's papers from the public. […] Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, said today that ''more information will be forthcoming'' because of the order. Some historians and public interest lawyers disagreed. […]” http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801E0D71130F931A35752C1A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

Enacting Executive Order 13233 was not the first time Bush and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales had resisted clear law about Freedom of Information in Government. It had also occurred as then-Governor Bush was leaving office in Texas, when 1,800 boxes of papers became “the center of a tug of war between Mr. Bush and the director of the Texas state archives.” The Governor kept these papers out of reach by placing them in his father’s Presidential Library. [See: “Battling Over Records of Bush's Governorship” NYT, 2/11/2002] http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E7D8103CF932A25751C0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

And as for Cheney, there’s this:

Brit Hume of Fox News asked in February 2006 ''a vice president has the authority to declassify information,'' Mr. Cheney replied, ''There is an executive order to that effect.'' He was referring to the order of March 2003, I don’t know that number yet.

So now Obama can do this, too. Will he rescind this Executive Order?

John W. Dean has this to say [11/16/07]:

It seems that those associated with the presidential libraries share my belief that Cheney plans to either destroy all the papers of his that he does not want the public to see, or to walk out of the White House with his papers under his control indefinitely, and that Bush will follow his lead. Not surprisingly, this is deeply troubling to these professionals, for they know it is contrary to both the spirit and letter of the laws relating to presidential papers. […] Democratic Congressional leaders should warn Bush and Cheney that if they insist on ignoring the law, then there will be consequences: There will be no NARA funding for the administration of the George W. Bush Presidential Library. Such a warning might dampen the ardor of the Senate Republicans who are blocking efforts on Capitol Hill to overturn Bush's Executive Order 13233. […] Unfortunately, while George Bush understands tough talk, it seems the Democrats don't. Thus, Bush and Cheney will no doubt get away with robbing history of the truth of their presidency, just as they have robbed the public of that truth while in office.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20071116.html

...no TV

Thanks again. :-)

of the following:

"Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear."-William Gladstone

Distortions, distorted and re-distorted, until people could believe that people there were raping babies, and that armed gangs were holding firemen hostage.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”-Voltaire

November 8, 2007 - “Contrary to popular opinion, [water boarding] is not a simulation of drowning. It is drowning. […] As the event unfolded, I was fully conscious of what was happening: I was being tortured.” - Malcolm Nance, former instructor at (SERE), at a hearing before the Subcommittee on Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties of the House Judiciary Committee.

http://www.webdsi.com/jebbie/ttpage14.html

the gist of DCLaw1's comments, it's interesting that s/he feels that in order to effectively ridicule Tommy [who is presumably male] he must be turned into a [caricature of a]woman.

Who said:

With special prosecutors carrying out separate investigations on torture, illegal spying, intelligence manipulation, politicization of DOJ, the destruction of records and manipulation of the financial markets, the Obama administration will be free to go about its business. The prosecutors do the work and we stop hounding him. Until then, we have to keep pushing, every day.

I only wonder whether the Obama administration will care about being "hounded" any more than W's did.

One other thing I would like to know more about is our government's use of Private Military Contractors like Blackwater.