I really sincerely thank-you very much for this bill. It is long overdue. I wonder though what will be the response of the Pelosians when the cheney/buhs junta's lackeys in the Senate threaten you with a filibuster? They will. And to date the Democrats have inexplicably failed to do anything to stop the destruction of your constitution, torture, et al.

The real question though sir, is when will you and your colleagues defund the war? Will this destroy your party? No it will not! It will make your party.

The real torture Senator Kennedy, is the deaths of 1.2 Iraqis since your occupation began. (ORB report) That's 1.2 million violent deaths - by gunshot, by bomb, and yes, by torture. Some, like your demented and evil president, say it was "only" 30,000. Only 30,000. He lied.

3000 American dead and "the world changed". 1.2 million dead Iraqis, and you cannot weather a filibuster for the sake of those poor benighted people, and the shreds of your democracy. Stop the torture of Iraq, stop the attack on Iran, and then try to pass your bill. First things first.

Jack would have known what to do.

If you or I had called Matthews and threatened him or his staff, they would name names. In fact there would be recordings made of the calls, charges might be laid. Certainly a segment would be devoted to it. If it was loofah boy O'Reilly, we might expect a visit from "FOX security" (remember that story?).

Having said that though, this is, as far as it goes, a good thing. Anything to shut the murderous and evil cheney down.

Maybe we can avoid the coming attack on Iran now... maybe.

Show you some studies that show you that torture is ineffective? Do your own research you lazy slob.

How will we get the information? The same way the police do, the same way MI6 did in the good old days before people like you got the upper hand. Even the Nazis for the most part did not torture suspected spies. There were exceptions of course but for the most part they did not.

Another reason not to torture? Al Masri. Remember him? No of course not, he was a German used car salesman, kidnapped by your brave defenders of die heimat. He was innocent. Did nothing. Astounding you released him instead of putting a bullet in his head to silence him. A moment of compassion? More likely arrogance in the sure knowledge that anonymous cowards will back them up no matter what they do, so long as you can stay fat, happy, and protected from the "enemy" of the moment.

And how about this, maybe it is a good thing you are an anonymous coward because if you used your real name some "patriot" might get suspicious you were actually a double agent, drop a dime on you, and YOU would find yourself in the dunk tank. What a loss.

http://216.250.183.124/politics/torture.note.txt

"Mitrione arranged for the police to get newer electric needles of varying thickness. Some needles were so thin they could be slipped between the teeth. Benitez [an Uruguayan police official] understood that this equipment came to Montevideo inside the U.S. embassy's diplomatic pouch."

Historian] Jan Black notes that in Brazil "the marked expansion of the training [of police by the US] program also coincided with an increase in documented reports of the systematic torture of political prisoners..."

The chief CIA analyst on Iran from 1968-73, Jesse Leaf, stated that the practice of torture by the SAVAK was well-known to the CIA and that "a senior CIA official was involved in instructing officials in the Savak on torture techniques.... The CIA's torture seminars, Mr. Leaf said,'were based on German torture techniques from World War II'."

And the site goes on and on until you vomit.

One of the very real horrors of torture is that the torture never stops, even if you confess, even if you tell them all you know. They keep torturing to "confirm" the information.

Hey Tim, have you not read or apprehended the Lancet report on "extra" Iraqi deaths? It's 650,000 at the low end, over a 1 million at the hight end.

http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

Maybe you missed the ORB report,(I doubt it) which placed the number at around 1.2 million. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb2-s17.shtml

Do you get your figures from the dear leader who guessed it was around 30,000, not that he cared? Or are you quoting from the Iraqi Body Count site and can't be bothered to read the fine print that states they only count the dead mentioned in at least 2 media reports - media reports that are in short supply since no American ventures outside the Green Zone anymore except for the odd search and destroy mission.

In the future Mr. Grieve, I would hope that you give the dead the courtesy of at least counting them correctly.

Petraeus is a war criminal, and Gore is missing in action. He stood by with a smirk while America smashed a country - for no reason. And now he stands by again, refusing to serve, while the carnage in Iraq, and soon Iran, continues. A peace prize? What's wrong with you people? Where's the peace?