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Bill Owen

Published Letters: 1918
Editor's Choice: 6

Monday, March 17, 2008 12:07 PM

@mattawa - kilns

The smoke from the fires was black indicating a low oxegen fire, the antithesis of a kiln. There are photographs (sorry Farhad I know that you have "debunked" photographs) showing a woman standing in the hole that the plane made in WTC 1. The impact on WTC 2 was at an oblique angle and the photos show a huge fireball blowing out the side, most of the fuel burned in that fireball. Firefighters who made it to the impact site described the fires as light and isolated that could be knocked out with 2 hoses.

Here is a picture of a woman waving from inside your "kiln". http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc1_woman.html

And the two firemen seemed not to have been affected by the "kiln" either.

Battalion Seven Chief (Palmer): "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones.

Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."

Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Tower one. Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."

Battalion Seven Chief: "I'm going to need two of your firefighters Adam stairway to knock down two fires. We have a house line stretched we could use some water on it, knock it down, okay."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're coming up the stairs. We're on 77 now in the B stair, I'll be right to you."

Battalion Seven Operations Tower One: "Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."

Battalion Nine: "Alright, I'm on my way up, Orlo."[52]

Here, Battalion Chief Palmer calls for more men and water to put out the isolated fires. His expression “10-45 Code Ones” refers to dead bodies, of which apparently there were many. The tape shows that the two firemen were not turned back by heat, smoke, or a wall of flames. They were able to function within the fire zone and were prepared to help the injured and combat the few isolated fires they found. Palmer even mentions that the stairway up to the next level, i.e., floor 79, was passable. Minutes later the building came down on their heads.

As for your theory that the planes "burning inside" somehow contributed to the collapse, well, you should know that no one, no one, says that buildings collapsed due to fire. The iron micro-spheres remain. Unexplained by the new "kiln" theory

Monday, March 17, 2008 12:14 PM

Get a grip

In the early 1970's the World Trade Center's chief structural engineer, Leslie Robertson, calculated the effect of the impact of a Boeing 707 with the World Trade Center towers. His results were reported in the New York Times where it was claimed that Robertson's study proved the towers would withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 moving at 600 miles an hour. Little did he know that decades later two aircraft, almost identical to the Boeing 707, would impact the towers.

Other engineers are on public record as saying that the World Trade Center would even survive an impact of the larger and faster Boeing 747.

The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.

The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.

The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.

The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.

The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.

The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.

The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.

The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.

However, the actual aircraft involved in the World Trade Center impacts were only flying from Boston to Los Angeles, and consequently, would have been nowhere near fully fueled on takeoff (the Boeing 767 has a maximum range of 7,600 miles (12,220 km)). The aircraft would have carried just enough fuel for the trip together with some safety factor. Remember, that carrying excess fuel means higher fuel bills and less paying passengers. The aircraft would have also burnt some fuel between Boston and New York.

Government sources estimate that each of the Boeing 767's had approximately 10,000 gallons of unused fuel on board at the times of impact.

To give you some idea how much jet fuel this is, an 11 foot by 11 foot by 11 foot tank contains 10,000 gallons (1 US gallon = 0.13368 cubic feet). So a novel way of destroying high-rise buildings is to load an 11 foot by 11 foot by 11 foot glass tank of jet fuel into a Ryder truck, drive it into the ground floor lobby, break the glass, set light to the fuel and walk away, the high-rise should collapse in about an hour (after all, 12,000 gallons of diesel was all it took to bring down WTC 7). Look mom, no explosives needed.

Monday, March 17, 2008 12:26 PM

My job today is to tell the "troof"

It's pronounced "trooth", do you have a speech impediment?

Brilliant point by point refutation!

While you are it, what is the difference between the aviation fuel of today and the aviation fuel from the 70's, and how much more "powerful" is it?

Just curious.

And by calling me names you just display your complete lack of capacity for rational argument.

Monday, March 17, 2008 02:00 PM

@ Bushwhacker Thanks for clearing that up.

I was worried there for a minute.

You say that no engineers or a least those of the right flavor, believe in alternative explanations for the attacks and ensuing collapses.

Here are 300 of them.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

So let me get this straight, if someone is talking outside their field then nothing they have to say has any value? Correct?

What did you say your field was?

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