I’m going to go out on a limb, following up on Crowepps and Marc22309 . There cannot be a meeting of minds when one mind is 100% certain that they are right, and rejects out of hand any and all arguments (and facts) that contradict their position.

I admit- abortion under any circumstances is troubling, and becomes more so as the fetus matures. I am NOT sure that I am right, but after careful and thorough thought, I have come to believe that the negatives of making abortion illegal would far outweigh those caused by its legality. I am sorry, but almost all of anti-choice simply bypass the actual complexity of the real world. For example, most pro-death penalty folks simply cannot and will not deal with the PROVEN high error rate in death penalty cases. When I ask them- “so what is an acceptable error rate when it comes to executing innocent people? “ They refuse to believe it, being “sure” that we can punish the guilty and never the innocent (it helps they seem to also believe that being black, brown poor, or Islamic “proves” your guilty of SOMETHING) We’ve documented error rates between 10 and 20% based on after-the-conviction DNA evidence. Is that acceptable? It shows that one should not be “for” or “against” the death penalty- the discussion should be “what is the level of proof at which we can even discuss capital punishment”.

What is an “acceptable death rate” during pregnancy when the pregnancy is unwanted? If abortion is so wrong in their eyes, why does it suddenly become acceptable when it is THEIR daughter?

Most frustrating of all- when I try to make these points to an authoritarian type, they see my admission that I do NOT know everything, that one can NOT be sure, as somehow proving that they are right…

I really don’t see an answer. I’ve dome family therapy under this model, but it presupposes an ability of all parties to at least question their own assumptions. Not seeing much of that here (and Joan’s 1100 letter thread was just vomit-making. God ,there are some sick, twisted mofos on the other side…and lots of Scott Roeder wannabes. I wish Joan had thought to point out the issue of “copycatting” of social phenomena. That’s when someone shows that a certain act is possible by doing it, and other disturbed individuals follow suit. Looks at the distribution of teen suicides, school shootings, etc. And that was before the BillOs of the world made 8 figure incomes by throwing gas on the fire…)

Truly, how many of the anti-choicers do you ever see changing their position?

Thanks for proving the point of my last post. By the way, thanks also for reminding me that a "sick mofo"can be female. I'm sure with a little research I could find pictures of women who died in childbirth, or someone wrongly executed. But I don't make reasoned arguments with SICK emotional attacks. I know I shoudl pray for you, but it just isn't in me...I will, however, save you a seat by the fire.

My thought of cramming libertyaintfree up Notorbitboy's ass, that is...I wonder if your private health insurance covers lube?

LAF-

Actually, I AGREE with what you would like to have happen in the Middle East- but your Fox-talking-points approach is, as they say, bass ackwards. Iran HAD the first true, home-grown democratically elected government in the Middle East. But they wanted to take back control of their own oil, so the CIA overthrew them in 1953 and installed the Shah. The Shah became increasingly brutal to hold power, which generated the growth of the mullahs and fundamentalist Islamic resistance to what was seen as a western-installed dictatorship. By 1979 the situation was untenable (and you neglect to mention Iran-Contra, where Rumsfield, Cheney. Elliot Abrams, et. al. were arguably committing TREASON, going behind Carter’s back to the mullahs, promising arms to fight Iraq (who we ALSO armed) if they would hold the hostages long enough to cost Carter the election).

Fast forward to 2002- the government of Iran has become more liberal, more pro-western, and less fundamentalist. So we invade their neighbor on what everyone knew were bullshit reasons, while proclaiming that they (Iran) was also part of the “Axis of Evil”. Next elections swing rightwards, A-jad, comes into power.

You can’t seem to get it through your head that the more aggressively we interfere, the more we ARE the bad guys and undermine the process of the growth of democracy.

I certainly disagree with Obama on a lot of things- but if Lindsay Graham and John McCain agree that he is wrong, that pretty well nails it for me that he is right.

Peace Out

I just wasted 30 seconds of my life checking out tipsynitwit’s blog. He is actually even stupider and more clueless there than here. Please do not feed the trolls, or if you must, avoid the drooling ones.

My god, this dumbass is actually making me miss shooter- at least he would use a fact now and then…

Don't have time to read all teh ccomments today, but see if this doesn't ring true...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Y0I91rubg

I was involved in martial arts for many years, and I will tell you- the better a fighter someone is, the calmer and less confrontational they are. I’ve been taught by masters who told you, flat out, that you AVOIDED conflict if at all possible, including RUNNING from an opponent! And these were folks who could kill you without breaking a sweat. Occasionally some macho asshole-type would come into class, and be taught a lesson in the importance of humility…

It says something sad about our culture that mixed martial arts such as the Ultimate Fighter are becoming pro wrestling- my sensei would have trashed any of these guys for their obnoxious behavior. Sigh…