Paulpsd7,

How is that Pro-Israel? Do you think the Holocaust and Israel are the same thing?

I think having the laws in France, Belgium, or Canada is stupid, because they are fairly safe from Nazism, but I don't mind them for Germany and Austria, although they may have outlived their usefulness.

Trust me, that level of vitriol was only for the ignorance Mr. Wagner showed. If he does move into denying the Holocaust, there's a whole 'nother level. Just to be clear, there a TON of information freely available on the internet about the Holocaust. Including original documents, pictures, etc.

I think Ahmadinejad and others have the RIGHT to believe any-fucking-thing they want, and I have the right to deride their ignorance and misuse of history in proportion to their distance from the truth.

Trust me, that level of vitriol was only for the ignorance Mr. Wagner showed. If he does move into denying the Holocaust, there's a whole 'nother level.

He said nothing to indicate he denied the holocaust. You're just defensive on this issue, projecting an offense where none exists. Which leads you to make unnecessary claims

Read my quote again. Maybe for the first time. I said he was ignorant, not a denialist.

Just to be clear, there a TON of information freely available on the internet about the Holocaust. Including original documents, pictures, etc.

Sorry, did anyone here claim otherwise?

Yes

Gordon Wagner--"Certainly any group that had suffered a genocidal campaign would want all existing records made public and accessible to researchers in order to document the scope and scale of the atrocities. The recently released Nazi-era records ought to be made fully available via the Internet so that the true number of victims can be completely understood."

Nobody disputes that Armenians were killed in job lots during 1915-1916. However, it WAS part of WWI. The Armenian Revolutionary Federation was working for independence since the 1890s, and by 1917, Armenia had formed an independent state. That makes it a war of independence to me or a rebellion from the Ottoman point of view, and therefore a part of the war, not genocide. If you look at where the Armenians lived in Eastern Turkey, you see that Russia invaded areas like Kars and Van, killed thousands of Turks, and supported Armenian Independence (under their domination).

By comparison, the Axis killed over 20 million Soviets in WW Two, the majority of which were civilians, but it wasn't genocide because they were at war. The war guilt clause (which was the proper response, IMHO) which was included in the Treaty of Sevres was repudiated by the new government of Turkey in the Treaty of Lausanne. The Ottoman/Young Turk government doesn't exist anymore; this is just silly posturing for the Armenian lobby.

The ONLY part of the Armenian death toll that can be attributed to the current Turkish state established by Ataturk is the Turkish-Armenian war of 1920, where the Turks under Kazim Karabekir fought a brutal campaign to win back Kars, and the Armenian government fell to the Bolshevik-backed communists.

PS Whoever said the Kurds would be happy needs to look at their history books again. The areas where the massacres took place were mostly Kurdish dominated, and a LOT of the killing was done by Kurds.

PPS Hitler Quote

Hitler is alleged to have said that once, but it was never written in the text and seems fishy.

World War I was the greatest disaster the western world ever brought upon itself. The repercussions in the former Ottoman empire alone include the slaughter of civilian Armenians, the Diaspora, the expulsion of Greeks from Turkey and Turks from Greece and the Balkans, the rise of radical Islam, the Israel conflict, Iran and Iraq, and, lest we forget, communism in the Soviet Union, including Armenia. Maybe Armenia wants us to forget that they were our rival and later enemy from 1920 until 1991.

Armenia started in 1991 right where they left off in 1920, by going to war with their neighbors, and those who so oppose ethnic cleansing may want to look at Armenia’s human rights record with respect to the Azerbaijanis. I understand why the Armenians are now pushing for recognition, given that they aren't allied to our enemy the USSR anymore, but Turkey is still our ally, just as they were for most of the Cold War, and we should support our allies, just as Turkey is supporting us with access to our base in Incirlik and their airspace. I have nothing against the Armenians, but I have nothing for them either.

“There were instances of inter-ethnic clashes and murders in other territories, during and after the war, but none reached the scale of this calamity and none were sanctioned so clearly from the state.”

Yes, by a state that hasn’t existed for almost 90 years.

“I know that he (Hitler) never recorded these thoughts on paper, but he also never wrote down the idea of creating extermination camps to kill Jews and other undesirables. I nonetheless continue to believe he was complicit.”

Who’s being pseudo-historical now?

I said pseudo-historical for believing Hitler said the Armenian remark, you stupid troll. As we both know, there is a ton of evidence for his complicity in the Holocaust, not just an attributed offhand remark. Thanks so much for twisting my words. Goodbye.

Glenn, you've already made up your mind about Boylan and Petraeus, now you're just trying to fit the emails into your pre-framed story.