I recently heard that according to the DNC's rules, the penalty for holding pre-Feb 5 primaries was to be the loss of half the state's delegation (like the GOP).

IF this is correct, it seems like the solution for Florida would be to scale back the current penalty so that Florida would have half the number of votes at the convention than it would have had if not for the current unpleasantness.

As to how to apportion the delegates, the DNC should give in a little and use the results of the primary (and the subsequent caucuses - in which the actual delegates were elected in accordance with the primary results, which was in defiance of the DNC rules). The easiest way to do it would be to give each of the currently elected delegates 1/2 vote. Otherwise you run into trouble determining which one of two delegates gets to vote - for instance, in my Congressional District (the 2nd) Clinton, Edwards, and Obama each got 2 delegates, one man and one woman (Obama got one alternate, a woman - because in 2004, the alternate was a man).

So IMNSHO Florida is solvable just by following the DNC rules (most of 'em, anyway). I don't remember the counts* but even if Florida wasn't stripped of any delegate votes Clinton would only gain a couple dozen on Obama as I recall - depending on Edwards' 20 or so(?). So it won't make much difference.

I'm an Obama supporter, but I don't think any of the candidates should have any say in this - it's up to the DNC, and maybe the Florida Dem Party. Lord knows they've royally screwed up everything up to this point, maybe the law of averages will help.

Michigan is a completely different case, since all the candidates' names were on Florida's ballot.

*I don't have time to hunt right now, but if you're interested I think the delegate counts are somewhere at http://www.fladems.com/

Before Obama started collecting tons of delegates. As much as I'd like Actual President Gore to have a term or two in the White House, it's Obama's time. Unfortunately, I doubt if Gore would want to be VP again either.

Let's hope that Obama (or Hillary, if she manges to get nominated and elected) will find a way to work Gore into his(her) administration in whatever official or unofficial role is most effective.

In other news, who gives a rat's ass what Joe Klein or any other self-important pundit thinks? Isn't Klein the class act who said someone's (Obama? Clinton? Spitzer?) political trouble was "the manta ray jumping into the boat" on the day after that woman was killed?

"c) she hasn't lost that much ground in terms of people who had always said they wouldn't vote for her."

I think this should be the next Clinton campaign talking point.

"I know that perhaps 70 of the public is made up of malcontents of some degree. The problem is that we don't have enough entitlement programs, but you know that don't you? Since about 10% of the population pays most of the taxes. The others want more, understandably."

Republicans moan and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor and our poor are too rich!"

(Jerm asked "When will the sarcasm and negativity end!?" Though a later message indicates the question was asked with tongue in cheek, I'll answer anyway: Not just yet, for me - I've been looking for an excuse to post this for awhile now...)

Hillary's assumptions of inevitability, and claims to the loyalty of (increasingly smaller) various Democratic constituencies remind me of a scene from the epic historical drama "Army of Darkness"*. In this scene, Duke Henry is Hillary and Ash is an Obama supporter like me (Obama is too classy - or at least too smart - to get caught talking to Hillary like this).

----------------------------

Duke Henry: You're not one of my vassals... who are you?

Ash: Who wants to know?

Duke Henry: I am Henry the Red. Duke of Shale, Lord of the Northlands and leader of its peoples.

Ash: Well hello, Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town.

----------------------------

(I hope you appreciate that I resisted the temptation to change that line to "Well hello, Madame Fancy Pantsuit.")

It's important to note that Duke Henry later helped Ash to defeat the Deadites. Perhaps history will repeat itself!

*http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106308/

MacK -

I just skimmed your list and saw my "Democratic" Senator's name on it. If Spineless Bill was a heartbeat away from the Presidency I'd start house-hunting in Australia - not because of animosity toward him as much as because I don't think the US could survive President Empty Suit. Nelson is pretty much another Lieberman but without the charisma or Joementum (yes, I'm being sarcastic).

I'm just a little bit biased, but I think Nelson's appeal in Florida is about a quarter-mile wide and an eighth-inch deep - hey, just like his convictions! He should get on his knees every night and thank God that the best the GOP could run against him was Katherine Harris, and that he had no Democratic challenger.

Luckily for everyone on the planet, Spineless Bill is a Hillary supporter - he hosted her Mission Accomplished "victory" party the night of the Florida primary - so unless Obama's incredibly desperate to pick up a few thousand votes that would be swayed by having anyone from FL on the ticket, there's not much likelihood that he'll make the cut.

Witness that Ahmedinijad (?) can announce a visit to Iraq ahead of time and receive an open, warm welcome - unlike Bush or Cheney.

I lost count of how many times I shouted "Jesus Christ!" during the first hour.

but that was almost as difficult to follow as a post from "good celery".