“and they don't have an iota of a clue as to what they are arguing against. They have no experience and therefore "imagine" what it is they attack. They attack all BDSM as "sadism." They proudly show the world their ignorance with insults tinged with anger and hate and pronouncements of righteous judgement.”

Anonymous

I addresed the continually repeated argument which sadists always trot out ‘you are not allowed to hold an opinion because you have never tried it.’ I explained so even they can understand that it is possible to hold an opinion about something you have never tried, and for that opinion to be equally as valid.

So what do we get in reply?

The same argument (yawn) ‘They have no experience and therefore "imagine" what it is they attack’.

To follow this strange reasoning to its logical conclusion no murderer would ever be convicted. In this wacky world, only people who have murdered would be able to sit on a jury because only they have ‘experience’ of what it is like to murder.

And what about people who have been through sadism and regard it as abuse? Are they allowed to hold an opinion? What about the woman who saw her husband change from the loving life partner into the deranged torturer thanks to the malicious influence of sadism? Is she allowed to hold an opinion? Or is it only people who agree with sadism that hold any currency in this strange land?

There is a word for this. Its called Dogma.

“Clearly with the subject of BDSM there is too much to attempt to process for these two...better to simply insult, attack and try to emotionally "hurt" those who understand.”

Anonymous

I see so it my fault! Im just not clever enough to ‘understand’ your arguments so its not worth you troubling yourself to educate me. What arogance! You know what? There is an opinion that sadism is closly linked to narccism, I think you have just gone long way to prove it. A closed mind asks no questions, unthinkingly accepting that which it wants to believe. The blindness is all yours.

Next is the sympathy argument, one to pull at the heart strings this. Pity these poor misunderstood sadists who choose to abuse complaining about being ‘emotionally “hurt” because somone has have the temerity to question their warped lust. Ahh didums, what do you want? A benefit concert?

You really would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh!

“Example: if you are into torture you are fucked up.

I couldn't find "fucked up" in the DSM-IV TR. Is that a clinical term. What do people who engage in BDSM suffer from?”

Confused by the Hate.

Well confused you might try the ICD 10, which is a United Nations publication concerning the International Classification of Diseases and is accepted by the overwhelming majority of governments in the world.

You will find Sado Masochism listed there under ‘Mental and Behavioural disorders’

“F65.5 states Sadomasochism A preference for sexual activity which involves the infliction of pain or humiliation, or bondage. If the subject prefers to be the recipient of such stimulation this is called masochism; if the provider, sadism. Often an individual obtains sexual excitement from both sadistic and masochistic activities.”

Anyhow I wouldn’t use the DSM-IV TR as reference for anything. Ever since the gang of four took over the APA in an effective ‘coup’, the APA has lost all credibility within the psychiatric community, even in the U.S. They have been floundering ever since DSM effectively declassified Paedophilia as a mental disorder a couple of revisions ago, much to the horror of just about everyone. They soon did an about turn under the howls of protest, and have never really recovered from this debacle. There is a movement to set up a rival association for psychiatrists such is the exasperation many within the APA have for their leadership.

Composites and little adjustments of the truth, indeed. I could barely concentrate on the contents of the article, because these two little words kept dancing around in my head: James Frey, James Frey ... At any rate, am I the only one on the planet who wishes the whole world would just shut up about its sexuality already?

Ahhh, let's look at some lovely reactions about this discussion by a couple of recent contributors:

(1) from -- stupid is as stupid does:

"If BSDM is so all about freedom, then why can't you even sign your name to your fucktard screed?"

(2) from -- Spartacus:

(talking about BDSM and Love:)

"They are not complimentary, no form of yin and yang, but two totally alien concepts which only get mixed in the wacky world of sadism where particularly disturbed individuals satisfy their warped lust, then try to hide this abuse by calling it love."

...and then there is: "the ultimate sadist insult, ‘you are narrow-minded’"

...and then there is: "Scepticism could make us get accused of being narrow-minded. Sad I know, but it’s better than abandoning scepticism and becoming so open minded that our brains fall out...."

Hummm...these two scream the loudest and insult the deepest...and they don't have an iota of a clue as to what they are arguing against. They have no experience and therefore "imagine" what it is they attack. They attack all BDSM as "sadism." They proudly show the world their ignorance with insults tinged with anger and hate and pronouncements of righteous judgement.

I'm glad they are clueless. I hope they remain so for the sake of not losing their brains and minds. BDSM brings up knee jerk reactions with them...attack what is not known or understood AND define what it is while attacking, though you don't know what you are talking about. Brilliant! Clearly with the subject of BDSM there is too much to attempt to process for these two...better to simply insult, attack and try to emotionally "hurt" those who understand.

Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.