Letters to the Editor
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grammar
if i bothered to correct all the grammar in my comments, i'd be here all day. like "yin" should be there instead of "ying". that doesn't mean i dont' have an ivy league education. that means i'm at work with fifty million tabs open.
susan's still an idiot. just a thought.
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Defending Susan
I think people are being a bit hard on Susan. She had a bad experience and trivializing it and ridiculing her seems childish. I think her point about wanting to be treated with courtesy and respect by men is not that unimportant actually.
But she does go way overboard. Some men are ass-hats. Heck, probably a majority of men are ass-hats. But people should hold out for the exceptions, and give all men the benefit of the doubt (which usually doesn't take that long).
Wanting to have sex with someone and treating them with courtesy and respect are also not incompatible. And certainly there are men who will prioritize the latter over the former.
When people stop believing that men and women can be friendly equals beyond issues of sex, then it becomes true for them. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. And a rather obnoxious little meme that stereotypes all men.
Where the critics are correct though is that the story is more revealing of Susan's own insecurities than anything else. Rudeness should be shrugged off and not dwelled upon.
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Mr. Man
I would like to take issue with man's statement regarding women and fuckability. i regret taking away time from discussing Ms. Miller's evaluation. However, I am not gay and I am not a liar. The only men I know that assess a woman's value based on "fuckability" are usually around 19 years-old and have just got their first new car. Any mature man realizes that sexism and racism have a similar negative outcome. In other words, you miss out on a great deal. That black guy you avoid may have been able to give you a piece of advice that could save your relationship with your son. The odd-looking woman with the bad teeth could have helped you meet your deadline by showing you how to re-format a Word document. We are all children of God--or something else, of course,--what I mean to say we are nearly all the same.
Fake boobs feel weird--not a turn on. A vagina that has been douched has no personality.
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thenomadologist
If you wish to be taken seriously, you should try writing in a grammatically correct style instead of simply waving your degree in my face and hoping that substitutes for knowledge--all evidence to the contrary.
Likewise, if you're that busy at work, then get back to work. You chose to visit this site, read the letters and respond instead of doing what they're paying you to do. That, coupled with your using it as an excuse for an inability to write clearly, says a lot about you. And like Susan's speechifying, none of it is good.
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Curvy models on the book cover please.
I'm guessing that's a female model on the book's cover. Is it? Could have given us a nude WOMAN. A curvy feminine lass. But I guess that's the point, no?
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shorter tragula:
Be nice to Susan, even if she is an idiot.
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A Life-changing Review
I'm wanting to go out and blow my last Borders gift card on Kipnis' book! Me, the guy who joined John Fahey in his rant against "The Revolt of the Dyke Brigade", the guy who has said so many horrible things about so many professional feminists (Paglia aside, simply because she's hot), and who has felt his life twisted around a red-hot poker by the women's movement even as I fought my fellow firefighters to hire the first female in our county - suddenly feel as though a weight has been lifted off me. Sweet Jesus, it really must be the end days!
Some things that came together for me during the quick review of Kipnis' book: Indiference is the sincerest form of murder; I hate Carrie Bradshaw and I always have; Femenazis were real and Fahey was right, but things are finally changing because the Universe won't tolerate gross imabalance indefinitely; Betty Friedan was, indeed, a cackler; Life is dangerous whether one has heart disease or not; There are more women than just my most recent ex-wife who "have managed to over throw the shackles of chastity -- to cite another rather significant vestige of traditional femininity -- more easily than bondage to the vacuum cleaner" (this last remains an enduring mystery, but at least I now know I was not alone in it); penetration, whether by a penis or a foil, explains why both sex and fencing are incredible turn-ons even if in the end it's nothing more than a prick; and, finally, that Marx had nothing on the Marx Brothers.
Laura K., would you mind falling on my sword?
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A few observations
Great letters today. Just a few observations:
* Its refreshing to see women admit what i have long suspected-- alot of them have no clue what they want and they are all over the lot on a variety of subjects, dating, life goals being the primary ones. Not to say men have it all figured out, but i dont feel nearly so bad at missing what is a moving goal post.
* On men's view of women : While Dino represents a point of view, its definately a minority one. (your opinions on douching-- wow-- just wow.) Man may be plain spoken, but is much closer to the majority view on the matter in my view.
* Susan-- you may want to chill out or seek substances that will help you do so. Patricia Swartz might have your hookup. GUys say crude things at parties, especially when drunk. You'd be shocked at the hurtful things girls have said to me when drunk. Good times all around.
* For the record, anyone who uses the term "fuckable" without irony is a retard.
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Why are so many angry at Susan? and evaluations based on sex
How dare a woman type quickly and make grammatical errors? I've seen a PhD with exceptional writing skills and knowledge make the there/their mistake in an email. It's not a reason to vilify someone publicly. It's far more self-revealing and self-damning to vilify someone with the courage to share a potentially embarrassing story, than to nervously share the story, complete with grammatical flaws and imperfect thought. Let's consider that casting the first stone story, shall we?
More to the point, how dare a woman assume a man evaluated her solely on her sexual appeal/availability? Excuse me, isn't that exactly a large part of the problem feminists are fighting? I've actually been seriously asked, "Why's an attractive girl like you studying physics?" This from an educated man with a doctorate. He genuinely didn't understand why I wanted to do that.
Men--supposedly evolved, intelligent men who believe deeply they respect and value women's minds--nonetheless have felt a need to test my intelligence in ways they never test other men's intellects. Two, at different times in my life, have come up with the idea of finding IQ problems and puzzles and presenting them to me to test the limits of my thought. One fellow student wanted me to take an IQ test emphasizing spatial relations and mathematics because, apparently unable to understand the difference between statistical trends and individual realities, he didn't believe it was possible any woman was better than he at these things.
I've worked in a broad variety of fields, in a variety of socioeconomic niches, and at every level I've seen exactly the kind of behavior Susan M. describes. Some men are less evolved and more blatant, and some are more evolved and unaware of their occasional lapses. But I don't think it's possible for a heterosexual man to be raised in this culture and be completely free of evaluating women from a sexual standpoint.
For what it's worth, I think the reverse is true as well. Women evaluate men from a sexual perspective whether they have a sexual interest or not. It's one of the ways they decide whether to respect a man, whether to cultivate a friendship, whether they trust him. I don't say we choose attractive over unattractive. For example, some women might find the unattractive man becomes more attractive as a friend or coworker. A woman observing sexist behavior in a male and crossing him off a list of potential friends is evaluating a man for his sexual behavior.
Women evaluate other women in those terms as well, and it's considered good business sense to take sex appeal into account in marketing, etc. I've been blocked from working the laboratory side of a company (when I had a better skill set for the work than the current, male lab techs) by a female manager who said, "We need a face like yours in front with customers." Why else is a perfectly healthy woman like Katie Couric photoshopped into something she isn't?
Make no mistake, all genders think in sexual terms in one way or another, and it take a great deal of practice and self-awareness before we can begin to see just how much farther we have to go to leave this behind. If, indeed, we can or should. It's a hard question, and harder still to evaluate while living inside the system we're trying to put ourselves outside and understand.