Letters to the Editor
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KT
I respect your 'live and let live' and that you acknowledge it's a dicey longshot at best, but if any religion actually practiced such a belief I have yet to see it in action. (OK, perhaps Buddhists.)
By the way, I miss the organ recitals back when it really was Wannamaker's.
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Sure, but doesn't mom eventually demand that you stop hogging the shower?
Tantric sex on acid is exquisite extacy if you are with someone you really love and are in a nice, comfortable, secure place. -- Jonathan
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Ktwdawg - no sorrow necessary!
<<Dreaded Atheist Church-Organist! (If I tell you I’m gay as well, will you completely write me off as a lost cause???)
Certainly not. I feel sorry for you- that must be one of the most difficult positions for someone to be in.>>
OH! Thanks for the kind thoughts, but the biggest difficulty I have at my church-job comes from my (closeted) atheism, and not at all from the fact that I’m gay (and ‘out’). The priests at the large, inner-city Catholic church where I play have literally never, in my almost 10 years there, discussed homosexuality from the pulpit in any way. Indeed, I went to my own boss, the Pastor, for one or two counseling sessions when I was in the throes of a particularly uncomfortable break-up with a man I had been dating – on the same DAY as one of the most complicated and high-profile Masses I’d ever conducted. Tough day for me, but - point being – the fact that I am gay is as close to being a non-issue in this Catholic church as you could possibly imagine. And nobody has ever tried to “reform” me.
But there’s another point touched on in your post…
<<A good Christian would be commanded by his faith to both condemn your sin and love you as a neighbor->>
A very happy bi-product of atheism is that, while morality and ethics still exist for us (and we atheists frequently argue that morals exist naturally in human relationships and society, and are in no way dependant on Religion) SIN does not! There’s no such thing as SIN to an atheist! (I could go on and on about this issue – but at the moment I feel more inclined just to let the clarity of that statement stand on it own, and bask in its own ‘self-evident-ness.’) So, while I DO use mental energy thinking about moral and ethical behavior, I do not concern myself with what is generally considered ‘sin.’
Because so many others would read my “stats” and, like you, feel sorry for me, I want to ASSURE you that I give myself very, very high marks for basic ‘quality of life,’ and that most anyone who walked in my shoes for a week or a month would not want to give them back to me. Though I understand your impulse, that anyone would waste good sorrow on ME is like cosmic joke. (I’m resisting the impulse to list the reasons, which I think would be tacky and self-indulgent, but I certainly will if you like!)
But you are right about one thing – I do wish, as an atheist (not as a gay man) that I had some other area of significant expertise so I wouldn’t feel TRAPPED playing organ in churches – which is indeed how I feel. It’s surprisingly lucrative, part-time work, with excellent benefits, and I really can’t improve on my current job. But it IS a frustrating place for an atheist to have to spend his work-day!
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oh please
Cgeiger, please don't be so disingenuous. You wrote: "Prove to me first, scientists, that there is no God. Prove it." Go back and read your own comment. Now when people point out to you why this such an asinine demand, don't try to say that's not what you meant.
Rillion addressed the rest of it very well... what does it mean for God to exist outside of nature? that's a pretty useless God. He didn't create anything, you can't pray to him (well you can, but he won't hear you), and he's not directing where the next hurricane will land. If you want to believe in some such nebulous being that exists outside of space and time, that's fine, it's just totally useless, and obviously you can't ask people to disprove it for you. But you probably realize that is not most people's conception of God. Most people believe in a God who interacts with nature, and like Rillion pointed out, science *can* have something to say about that.
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Glad to hear it
I'm glad your experience is not what I had guessed!
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Actually, it's O.K. for anyone to belive in God..
I don't understand why King can't use the word 'religion' in its very clearly defined and usual sense. It's not like the definition of religion is in any way misunderstood or controversial. Religion IS a set of beliefs - as described in every dictionary, it’s a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs and practices. What she describes as religion is better characterized as spirituality...so why not call it that? It was like reading an article on dogs where every word 'dog' was replaced with 'cat'. Why would you be confused? They're both furry, domesticated mammals....
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Secret hope
Barbara King's contention that religiosity in scientists is OK is a nice palliative bridge for disparate groups to connect with each other. However, it is not likely to gain any acceptance from Christian fundamentalists who are driven by ideas of right and wrong, one of them being that it is absolutely necessary to accept Jesus Christ as one's savior in order to go to heaven. No one else can go whether they have ever heard of Jesus or not! Such harsh ideas permeate many religious groups. Could it be that religion is more an exclusionary device than a spiritual search?
And why are there so many of us who find it completely irrational to entertain notions that God sits on a throne meeting out rewards and punishments. The fact that there are so many differing religions is not proof that we are spiritual but is more likely an offshoot of the societal necessity for establishing rules of conduct for its members and of generating ways of controlling behavior by establishing an "in" group and an "out" group. This is not to say that we are not all struck from time to time with our short life span and its meaning. On the other hand, many are driven to
fight the notion that we will be annihilated by death and seek possible loop holes for this bewildering fact, hence the construct of a spiritual afterlife! Scientists and others, including myself, cringe at disintegration and secretly hope that this is not simply our brief time upon the stage, signifying nothing.