Letters to the Editor
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measurable effects
How much measurable effect does, say, the idea of a quark or a light wave have on the physical universe? Just because an idea does not correspond to a measurable effect in the physical universe does not mean that it does not have a vital function.
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measurable effects?
We can build detectors which are sensitive to individual photons- and quarks can be inferred from high-energy scattering experiments.
Presumably though you're referring to the 'if a tree falls in a forest and there's no-one around to see it' question. However, there are conceivable experiments which would be sensitive to detecting falling trees- there are no experiments that can test the God hypothesis.
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Cherry picking and straw men
Armstrong follows in many footsteps by picking out the features of transcendent thought that are meaningful to her and dismissing others. But she wants to have it both ways. She criticizes the beliefs of many humans, but is glibly dismissive of other critics. In this interview she is religious in the worst sense of the word- she is not looking for common ground with other critics, but instead has the One Word.
There are many people who are seeking moral instruction that does not include people with super-powers and that does not cater to human wish-fulfillment. These Santa Claus features get in the way of real moral instruction for many of today's humans. They are looking for something to believe in, instead of something that, to them, is just not believable.
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measurable effects, experiments
Are you sure there is no experiment to test the God hypothesis? Think outside of scientific method. Does beauty or wonder ever invite you to open yourself up in new ways to the possibility of a mysterious presence? Think outside of all the available limiting conceptions of God, too. Science makes great contributions to knowledge and helps us understand reality. Religion and the human spirit have something to say there, too. Religion speaks a different language but can lead to very helpful insights into human existence. God, or that which is beyond all our descriptions of God, is central to that discourse. And it can be tested.
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To Brian
What is your proposed test?
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Anon2 and fighting the good fight
By all means, oppose christian nationalism, christianism, islamism, or any other socio-political movement that you disagree with that expresses itself in religious language. But it is futile to attack religion or godbelief. And wrong headed, i believe. There are vast numbers of people who embrace "religion" or some aspect of religious fideism, who would agree with every one of your political positions. For every article of faith, there is an equal and opposite article of faith in the same broad religious tradition.
As for "atheism", i'm of the non-religious, non-proselyting sort. And it's a word i would never apply to myself, since it is a theist construct, a faith-based appellation, a labeling of the religious Other. I'm an atheist like an ant is an atheist. Or a rock. I am a litho-formic a/theist. It's a good perch to observe "science" from as well.
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Quarks?
"How much measurable effect does, say, the idea of a quark or a light wave have on the physical universe?"
Light waves and quarks ARE measureable.
The wavelike properties of light are observable. For example, if we send light through an appropriately sized opening, it diffracts much like a waves. This is why the concept of light waves is useful. The old particle model of light had to be revised to fit with new MEASURABLE data.
Quarks were postulated to help explain similar, MEASURABLE phenomena.
"Just because an idea does not correspond to a measurable effect in the physical universe does not mean that it does not have a vital function."
Agreed...unless the idea purports to speak towards physical phenomena. For example, Christianity claims the actual existence of various things which are at odds with everything we currently understand about the universe. A 4000 year old earth, Noah's Arc, Water into wine, Imaculate Conception, Resurection, ascention into heaven, and the omniscient omnipotent heavenly father, these aren't just supposed to parts of a work of fiction, they're supposed to be as real.
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a proposed test
I am really speaking metaphorically about tests and experiments. But what I am speaking of is a way of approaching the unknown that is open to the element of mystery. In this endeavor we are seeking a connection to realities that are not subject to scientific experiment. So, in a sense the tests and experiments cease, and you give yourself to new ways of knowing truth. But in another sense, this is a test. There are practices that the great religious traditions, especially the mystics in each, might propose that would be part of the test, like saying to yourself regularly when you are still and quiet --that you are open to the mysterious and the scientifically unverifiable aspects of human existence, then wait and see how your perspective might be renewed from day to day. This 'experiment' may open up possibilities for your speculations that you could begin to associate with spirit, divinity, or transcendence. And this test continues throughout your lifetime, really. There is no point at which you've drawn all your conclusions about God's existence. If so you've become a fundamentalist.
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Leftwingers in denial
societies practicing hinduism, confucianism and all those non western religions are not kinder societies that ours. they are societies where inequality and injustice are not questioned, where the untouchables are in the same situation as fifty or hundred years ago, where there are no liberal ideas at all, no ideas of what we call rights, or the inherent worthiness of every human person, or freedom to worship as you choose, or the idea of progress or reform, or improvement of the human lot.
once again a liberal looks around the world and finds that the US or the west is most evil and oppressive. this is nonsense. and the biggest threat to liberalism today is the refusal of liberals (leftwingers really, because George Bush is a liberal and so is Cheney and so is everyone except for self described nazis) to admit its virtues and to admit how rare it is.