Letters to the Editor
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come on, rebecca
susan faludi equals charlie brown and bruce springsteen equals walt whitman! give me a break!
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This has to be one of the dumest arguments ever.
Typical of Faludi: narrow, remarkably simplistic, no nuance, completely ignorant of the real world.
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the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
there is probably no one in America who does not claim to believe this, is everyone a feminist. This definition does have one use though, no one is responsible for anything and anyone who claims otherwise is an anti-feminist (unless they say that they believe in the political, economic, and social equality of women).
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why give any misogynists any credence?
If I see a puddle of toxic swill I stay the heck away from it.
Don't give the misogynists any sense of power by taking them seriously, or heck, even listening to them.
Laugh at them then move on, that's my favorite M.O.
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Elisabeth-Anne is exactly right
You can always find examples of lingering racism, sexism, etc. There will always be people with prejudice against some group or another. I have felt for a long time that we make it worse by giving these people so much press so that the "enlightened" in our society can shake our collective heads in dismay. In addition, I think that constantly pointing out when ever a person of a traditionally disadvantaged group obtains a position of power; the first woman to this, the first black to that. The only thing this does is plant a subconscious seed in our heads that it's really unusual for this person to have accomplished this, thus, reinforcing the stereotype rather than dispelling it. I’m not saying that we should ignore racism or sexism but rather that real instances should be handled by the courts and everything else should be treated as normal human variance.
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Brightstar isn't a troll
I certainly don’t agree with all or even most of what he/she says, but there are occasionally good points buried there amid the eyepopping rhetoric. It’s worth a few seconds of my downtime to peruse his/her comments. Or at least the first couple of Brightstar's comments in any given thread.
Come to think of it, I don’t see a lot that would qualify as trolling here at Salon, maybe because the comments aren’t really a conversation so much as people throwing their opinions out there. Simply having an extreme opinion doesn’t make you a troll.
I only bring this up because I consider postings about who is and isn’t allowed to have an opinion in a forum like this to be tiresome and boring. In fact, I consider this entire post I have written to be tiresome and boring, since I have entirely avoided the underlying subject matter in order to vent about something that bugs me in some other posters’ comments. Sorry.
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@ OCwriter et al
I'm not sure Faludi's book is as much about feminism as this discussion seems to suggest--I really like the posts about the cowboys vs. Indians view of history--but I have to say I'm really dumbfounded by the analysis of American history that some people are offering as fact.
White women didn't join poor white and brown women in the workforce solely out of choice but in part because of structural changes in the economy that devalued the work and the salaries of men.
Women's salaries were, in other words, NEEDED to maintain the same standard of living.
Feminists didn't make the manufacturing base of this country disappear.
What planet are y'all from? I'm from the South, where we might like talkin about the aristocratic ideal but most folks have to work for a living.
Signed:
Uppity Former Belle
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Wow -- Waaahh Waaahh Waaaahh - Cry me a River
What the F**k are you people smoking? Too bad the title "The Outer Limits" is already taken. People (as a whole group) are only oppressed and repressed if they allow it. Individual people certainly have individual circumstances-- but if someone feels women are being oppressed then they need to look inward and determine what it is about their own personal circumstances is holding them back or helping them to feel that way.
Another question I have is why does it always seem to be that implicit in the "rise of women and feminism" has to be the "fall of men and masculinity" ??? Why can't the goals be to value everyone and to celebrate everyone's ability to contribute instead of some group having to be superior and another, implicitly, inferior? What's wrong with here we all are just groovin and jammin and having a good time. Why does it have to be an "us and them" thing?
Invariably every critical article, every post, every point seems directed to uplift one group at the expense of another. That is my personal problem with all these "isms". Feminism, Black-ism (whatever you call that-- its not really Racism), and all the other "isms"-- they all seem interested in taking away something from another group instead of simply turning inward and lifting themselves up by their own bootstraps (or bra-straps, or whatever).
I get so sick and tired of hearing the same old crap rhetoric from all of these groups. It doesn't matter which one, the crap is all the same-- we're oppressed, blah blah blah, here's some examples (true or not)-- what are YOU going to do about it???
Blink - blink.... ME??? What is ME going to do about it????
You've got to be out of your fricken gourd. Really. ME is going to continue to bee-bop along (with all my POWER and WHITE-MALE GODLINESS) completely oblivious. I might make a sandwich and then take a nap.
It isn't up to ME-- that's where YOU have it wrong. Its up to YOU-- whoever you are to figure out your own head, discover your own strength and simply STOP being "oppressed" because YOU, YOURSELF are the oppressor, and the chains are of your own making. Any INDIVIDUAL PERSON may have a specific circumstance to deal with, but the GROUP is STUPIDLY hanging on to old, worn-out rhetoric and stale cliches trying to convince itself that its so-called "plight" is somebody else's problem.
It aint. So get over yourselves. If you're upset that you can't sit at the master's table, then take off your chains, open your ignorant eyeballs and draw up a chair. Of course if you ever do you'll then have to figure out something else to be a victim of. Ever stop to think it might not be "them" but "YOU"???
Change your mind and you'll change your life. This life is WAAAAY too short to spend it wallowing in self-pity and trying to keep score of who's screwing over who. Forget all that. Concentrate on joining the human chorus-- sing your part and do your part to make this world a better place. Its not perfect, but if you try you can make SOMETHING better. And isn't that a MUCH NICER thing to consider and think about? And to be known for???
How about HUMANS-ISM, and EARTH-ISM, and LETS-ALL-GET-ALONG-ISM???
Geez you people need to get a life. And I need to get back to mine.