@ AnOptomist [sp]:

"Think about something you want in your life. Pick something rather small so it will show up sooner. Pray about it every day. It will show up. When it does, you will have scientific proof."

I just love it!

Something for your delectation:

http://skepdic.com/posthoc.html

If you were not addressing me in your last two posts, please ignore the following.

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If your comments were directed at me, please understand:

1. I am, by no means, intolerant of people of different faiths. I am not even sure why you would say "different" in this context, since Science is not a faith-based construct.

I am, rather, intolerant of fools. It is clear that if you even read what I wrote, you are incapable of understanding it.

The truth matters. That's why I am so passionate about this subject. I cannot let spurious strawman arguments about science and what it is for go un-challenged. People have enough trouble with the concept without having to constantly beat back armies of ignoramuses poisoning public discourse with nonsense, in an attempt to push civilization back into the Dark Ages. If you wish to criticize science, please try to know something about your topic before you put your foot in your mouth, yet again.

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Science has no place on the gamefield of theology.

Theology has no place on the ballfield of Science.

An intellectually honest, open-minded and open-hearted understanding of both serves mankind, and helps us to understand and appreciate the world in which we live.

Now, go back and re-read. Please.

P.S. You, and everyone else in this forum is welcome to address my comments. I would greatly appreciate being addressed directly when doing so. Thank you.

PoodlePlay:

"Science is not an accumulated body of knowledge and facts." [Insert the most excellent definition of the scientific process from PoodlePlay's post here]

AnOptimist:

"I do understand that science is a body of knowledge. Certainly. But we can both agree that it is a constantly CHANGING body of knowledge."

[Insert totally twisted and misunderstood post about what the religious think science is here.]

Heh, how typical of the religious to twist a rational person's statement like that. Go reread PoodleHead's post (or maybe read for the first time because it's clear you either didn't read it or totally misunderstood it) because it was a great definition of the scientific method.

Of course, you'll probably do the same thing and try to convert science into a "belief" system.

Scientists don't "believe" in science, it is simply a method of observing and cataloging reality. And unfortunately for the religious, reality has NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT RELIGION, PERIOD. Nothing positive, nothing negative. It is a nonissue. Too bad you religionists can't do the same.

One more thing, science worshipers... here's a simple test of faith.

Think about something you want in your life. Pick something rather small so it will show up sooner. Pray about it every day. It will show up. When it does, you will have scientific proof.

Works for me. Every major thing I've ever prayed about in my life, from relationships to cars to money to trips to people's health... it's all come to pass.

Either I'm just a very very very VERY lucky guy... or God exists. Either way, I sleep happy, married to the woman of my dreams, living the life of my dreams, building the future of my dreams... and prayers.

Give it it a shot. What have you got to lose except your cynasism?

First, take a breath. Second, put down that red pen in your mind, ready to edit every word you read from a believer, ready to highlight every phrase of faith as unworthy.

Goodness. Look at yourself. Look how intolerant you are of different faiths. How utterly incapable you are of seeing someone else's point of view.

I do understand that science is a body of knowledge. Certainly. But we can both agree that it is a constantly CHANGING body of knowledge. What was "true" ten or a hundred years ago might not what an informed science worshiper would expouse today, right?

Yes, even gravity is debated and debatable in scientific circles. Certainly this goes on.

So, it's not like science is straightforward at all. I've read a fair amount of quantum physics and things get rather squirley on the level of subatomic particles. String theory? Black holes? There are a number of open questions.

So, if you, or anyone puts your trust and base your actions and activities on what science has to offer, I submit to you that you stand on shifting sand. This is not a statement I make because I happen to believe in an unchanging and unmutable God, it's what any credible scientist would say.

Beakers and test-tubes and atom crackers and chalk on a chalkboard aren't metaphors that I use to illustrate the ephemeral nature of what you believe in... these are the tools of your trade.

And it is not shameful or incorrect to say that you believe in science. To you, the belie in every aspect of science and the myth of evolution is rooted in your bones. That's okay.

And it's true.

Its simply an obvious fact that if you believe in a path, be it God or science or both or the Los Angeles Yellow Pages... that system of "facts" which we can all agree are debatable, make up your worldview.

Which part of the above is debatable? That you believe in what you say? That you trust in your men in white coats to speak truth to you? That your oracle is the lab?

None of these things are open to debate.

Again, don't think yourself my intellectual superior simply because I know Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Don't treat me like a fool. I watch the news. I read. I read the same books you do. I'll bet I'm more informed about your belief system that you are of mine.

No matter. Be blessed. Enjoy. If your belief in Darwin gives you peace and happiness, good on you.

If, however, in the still of the night, you sometimes worry about your life and your kids and meaning and all that... pick up a Bible. Go ahead. It won't bite. Flip it open anywhere and read a bit. Especially the book of James. See if it speaks to you. You decide.

Most people- actually every person I've ever met who has a problem with God blames it on one or two particular people in their lives or in the media that was dumb and said they loved God. This is like discretiting the belief in science because of one dumb science teacher.

And think about this... I am open to and learn and read constantly about both science and religion. I am open to learning and discussing truths common and separate for each.

I'm fairly open minded in this regard. How about you?