How can we tell whether anything Bush says is sincere? The third generation of politicians in a ridiculously wealthy political family, George W Bush grew up learning the difference between appearances and reality.

His image has been buffed and polished by experts. We see virtually nothing that's not pre-spun. How can we trust any analysis based on public images of him?

Bloominthal is an excellent analyst, but in this case I don't trust the accuracy of his source material.

The Greek democratic system didn't last very long, it was followed by centuries of autocracy, and only wealthy men could vote.

Thank them for the idea if you like, but the author is not wrong.

"but I don't see much(any) reviling of Islamists..( from the left) "

You must think the best way to solve a problem is to revile it.

Or torture somebody.

I bet your kids have a wonderful life.

How can you sleep at night with all those fears you have of big, bad bogeyman Islamists blowing up your McMansion?

Get a grip, dude. 19 nuts with box cutters don't an invasion make.

I know James T. Kirk, and you sir, are no Tiberius.

The real Tiberius doesn't get all defensive and touchy when a little criticism comes his way. Real men can take it. Real men know how to admit flaws.

Your kind always over-reacts to real news about American military adventures and the havoc they wreak: "Oh, so we all bad and they all good?"

Childish petulance.

I recently heard ( I think on Randi's show ) that Tillman may have witnessed some of our military contractors ( mercenaries ) selling guns and ammo to Taliban fighters.

Given that quite a few mercenaries aren't even American citizens, this isn't as far fetched as it seems at first.

Blackwater Inc. : soon to be America's own Gestapo?

Mike Pace;

If you want to call truth telling and self awareness "America-bashing," that's your right.

American liberties are hardly UNPARALLELED ( caps yours. )

If you're frightened because you think there are Islamists from the other side of the world who are driven to come here and start cutting heads off us all, you should see a psychiatrist. You're crazy.

If you think Jihadist Islamists are conservative in the usual sense, you're pretty silly. They're radical extremists, not conservatives.

Bush isn't conservative in any good sense of the word either. He's a radical extremist too. But you knew that, right?

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"Tiberius" ( not the real Tiberius, of course ):

I called it propoganda and that's what it is. Why are you so childish that you can't admit that?

No problem. I admit it. You called the article propaganda.

Propaganda is factually false, the article is factually correct, ergo your proclamation is bull.

AND you're no Tiberius either.

Nyah nyah nyah....

In order to hide a conspiracy, an important step is to disseminate any number of ridiculous conspiracy theories so people will associate a truth teller with the nut-job theorists.

In any large conspiracy, only a very few number really know the scope and purpose. The pawns may know a bit, but not enough to answer all the questions they would have to field should they go public. And such pawns are usually obedient functionaries, not accustomed to doubting the diversionary explanations of superiors, much less openly questioning.

So they don't really know what happened on a larger scale. It would be stupid to accuse the powerful of a crime without complete, hard evidence, as recent events leading up the the 2003 invasion demonstrate. That's why the notion that "someone would spill the beans" is itself quite naive.

Bobbie Kennedy may have been on to something, but at this stage there are so many whacked-out theories that to repeat Kennedy's theories is to risk being called a conspiracy nut.

I suspect that more then a few of the wilder 9/11 theorists may be in fact working to cover up the truth.

Not that we can really know for sure after all this time and destruction of evidence. The best we can hope for is enough information to make an informed guess.

By saying that propaganda is a lie, I was engaging in polemic, a mild form of propaganda.

So where does polemic become propaganda? When is effective presentation propaganda? What about marketing?

At any rate, to call something propaganda is to accuse the messenger of deceptive intent, a point too fine to use in a mud fight like this one, IMO.

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But as to torture, it might surprise some that America as a whole isn't as opposed to torture as liberals would like to think.

I suppose it's because America isn't the nation that most Americans like to think it is.

I just sat down and was reading that very article in disbelief.

I got disgusted with the Democrats for caving in again.

Then I get online and go to Salon and find out the Washington Post again is writing pro-Bush propaganda.

Tell everyone you know who thinks that nothing will change because the Dems are weak: the MSM spins them. Here's proof.

Right wingers have known for years that you can shift the range of politically acceptable policies ( look up the "Overton Window") by paying for an army of kooks to push extreme ideas. That's where the Heritage Foundation came from.

We need Gravel to keep on saying what he's saying. Most of his positions are actually quite reasonable, but politically extreme at present. By having him on every debate pushing the political envelope, Democrats can have the breathing room to stop echoing the contemporary absurdities and actually talk about reality.

Politics 101.