I do remember there was a time when Ariel Sharon was unable to travel to Europe for fears much like the ones you have rightly mentioned. But I seriously don't believe that a war tribunal that involved an Israeli or American PM would get very far. When I said, "am I missing something", I wasn't saying that I didn't know there was a legal structure. I worked for years in Palestine under this same rubric. I was saying that the odds of those precedents being used against US (and their affiliated) leaders seems slim to none. Bush and crew may leave power, but the interests they have so bravely stewarded are going to be in a powerful position for a long time to come. I have hope that a DOJ, Geneva signatory or International Tribunal prosecutes these folks someday. Maybe when I'm ninety, or so, and the US has been eclipsed by China and India there'll be a reckoning--today's paradigm would literally have to be up ended.

"One should perhaps be careful what one wishes for."

Indeed, the thought does keep me up at night. Something like mad max, without the feathers and a lot bloodier.

jazzlstr said:

"You are guilty of what you complain about when it comes to the administration, you only care about the truth if it fits your particular viewpoint."

Not knowing, and not really caring if he really is who he says he is (why didn't he just use his real name as his handle then?) this really takes the cake. Here's a guy who admits he opposes the Iraq war but not only won't do anything about it, actively chooses to enable it. Then he complains that others are too narrow-minded, which apparently hurts his feelings.

Is it any wonder, with people like this at high levels of the military, that we're in the mess we're in?

And another thing...I don't know if this is in bad taste, I'm sure I'll know about it if it is, but I've been cobbling together a blog of my experiences as a Palestinian-Colombian-American ex New Yorker etc., and hoped that some of the more interesting (and open minded) people here might read it.

Its called Pro(b)logue. Here is the address; remember the golden rule.

www.2xhyphen.blogpspot.com

You can also access it by just hitting my handle in the lower right hand corner.

Waiting to see how many people come down on the commenter who left the following biscuit:

"Thank You Cdr. Guinn

for your service and for providing a valuable contribution to this discussion. Some here may not agree with what you have to say but the fact is, most of us here would never hear the "other side" of the story unless folks like you joined in with the discussion.

For the record, I agree with your description of who is and who is not a "hero" - word used much too frequently nowadays."

If it is true that LWM has many handles and instigates the pointless and ridiculous arguments that permeate these threads, then I wonder why some of the more regular posters here do not step in more frequently to weigh in and cut these short with a word or two viz the instigator's strategies.

I can see how this all might be fun for the people who make this a daily exercise, but I also wonder if posters here are aware of how these pages appear to the outsider. And the reflection on Glenn's work that engenders.

I've never had any quarrel with you. Here is my ethos, and how I live my life. I have progressive values, I've worked hard to put them to the test and to live by them. If I see someone littering in the street I call them on it. If I see someone menacing someone else on the bus, I do my best to summon the courage to intervene. If some war-mongering dufus is trying to convince the young and impressionable to go to war, I do my best to counter. I live in the environemnt, the environment lives in me, and I would be a fool not to bring things up if they, indeed, seemed wrong to me. You seem to have a similar set of values, so I've never been able to understand your comments whenever I brng up something like this.

Bamage:

'If', indeed. I do my best not to accuse, and to treat all posters as if they are for real (even when I know I'm being taken for a fool). But its good to see some gardeners lurking among the weeds.

devolved into exactly what it was critiquing.

You lost me. Oh well.

"They aren't, and you're not -- why else would you make a rather coquettish point of expecting someone to savage a comment complementing the good commander, even when no one has?"

As for this, I was actually drawing attention to the fact that many posters here are allowed to comment in whatever ludicrous fashion they wish to without comment by others. Part of this is that most of the posters here allow people to say whatever it is that's on their minds, and then critique the content, not the poster. Which is great. The other part is that there is a certain core group here (really a tiny, but very loud minority) that acts as a sort of gang, with one set of rules for its members and another for outsiders. Had I made this statement, I can only imagine...given the inordinate amount of crap I've endured when basically agreeing with the main of people's comments here. When you take into account that some of these posters have more than one alias, well, I can't see how anyone would deny its a problem for the environment. Its silly, it creates an echo chamber, and it does not put anyone's progressive values on display.