"Ross is, however, very much on top of sniffing out whether Hillary slept with Bill on the day he received oral sex from Monica Lewinksy. The minute he got his hands on Hillary's schedule today, he apparently crawled right over to that most special media day ever -- Stained Blue Dress Day -- and excitedly connected the dots."

Brrr. I can literally see this guy oozing across the documents like an unctious film...

In other news...I look forward to Hillary's upcoming speech on bridging the divide between wives and mistresses/hookers.

You said:

"when the Clintons were in power, no story was too invasive, irrelevant, or utterly divorced from the First Amendment's intended purpose of an informed electorate to be relentlessly flogged, whether or not it had anything to do with governance or the President's performance in office."

I'm not saying this was the story of the century, but certainly it had some value to the electorate. It does go to the character of the person in the white house. If I got caught having sex at my workplace I'd be fired. More importantly, if I owned or managed a business or organization I would certainly fire such a person; if they don't know enough to keep it in their pants at work, then they've got some other issues I don't even want to know about.

Certainly there's something in between complete right to privacy while screwing young women in the oval office and being plastered all over the nation's paper of records for it.

"Some claim -- like the job interviewee who cites "excess diligence" when asked to name their worst fault -- that they were simply too starry-eyed in their Goodness and purity"

WHAT???!!!?? You mean that doesn't work? No wonder I'm not getting any call backs...

Seriously, though. This is one of my main bones with Obama (and the rest of the Dems, this goes without saying). He is the anti-war candidate who vows to increase the size of our military and bomb areas of Pakistan and doesn't rule out a strike against Iran. Obama has shown he can lead rather than follow on other issues, this would be a great time to cast off the lichen and take the Democratic party in a new direction. He has the mandate if he knows how to use it.

“Hundreds of thousands” claim likely true, but hard to pin down"

I agree. But in any case, the 80,000 figure should be high enough by itself.

I think Jason is also correct because, as progressives, when we repeat data that's not bullet-proof, it can hurt us a lot more than it would the opposition...

I especially like Hitchen's conclusion:

"The role of Baathist Iraq in forwarding and aiding the merchants of suicide terror actually proves to be deeper and worse, on the latest professional estimate, than most people had ever believed or than the Bush administration had ever suggested."

And that estimate is? God, he lies like a hog in goose-shit.

...is like labeling them communists. I really dislike this custom here and elsewhere in Cyberspace.

I think JOhn Pm brought up a good point that rarely gets much attention. Just what is a justifiable defensive war? I don't mean from a legal perspective, since we don't follow the law anyway, its somewhat of a moot point. From a state craft perspective, however, I think its an interesting question.

And I would like to add:just what is a justifiable defensive war for a country wedded to a globalized economy that is a legacy of imperialism and colonialism? Its easy to say that Iraq wasn't justified; I don't think any war that the US has fought with the POSSIBLE exception of Japan, has ever been justified. But its plain to see that we owe much to the fact that we did wage these wars--these internets for example, and our cool-ass cars, and yes, plastic. Even contact lenses. Just what would we as a people be willing to accept as a fair level of existance. No cheap oil, that's one thing. But no cheap electronics? No fresh fruit and vegetables? No hamburgers or ashpalt? You could run down the list, there's very little we produce in this country these days, and much of our technology would never have emerged without govt. war funding...

Went for a walk, as you suggested, and strangely, it still bothers me. Thanks for the advice though.

Poodle Groomers will do.

But...my point wasn't that it offends, its that its used as a way to deligitimize ideas without adressing the points involved. I'd say that the Right Wing does that as well, by calling us "Liberals" and "moon bats". Beneath us, isn't it?

I also find it interesting the way some respond to criticism in cyberspace, it really reminds me of things I hear on Fox--if you don't like it leave, etc., or just shouting people down until they go away. Or rummaging through their post archive to find an example that proves their hypocrites--that's Hannity's favorite. If you are a hypocrite, I obviously don't have to address your point.

I thought that progressive people established a long time ago that all environments had to change in America, the family, the social, the cultural, the political and yes even the electronic. Ok, shout me down (you know who you are).

I've been called a troll here more than once. Inflammatory can mean all kinds of things--it even sometimes means that you're saying things I don't agree with.

...and the lawyer says, "I think we have a great case against the bartender"

ok, ok, can we all agree to end this thread. I was only putting the thought out there, I wasn't looking for SALT II. This is like trying to sew a button with a nail gun.

Wasn't talking about you...your points are taken and considered. I don't mind being AN odd man out, not THE...an opinion derived from being a COlombian-Palestinian-American