Some Jews' viewpoints about Israel are affected by their cultural or religious affinity for the Jewish country. This is a brilliant, original and devastating point that I just came up with. Yay, me!

According to Moyers (as stated in his letter to Foxman), the "devastation of innocent civilians" in Gaza is "exactly what Hamas wanted to happen."

Perhaps the Palestinians of Gaza should give some thought to choosing leaders who do not desire the devastation of Palestinian civilians. Otherwise, one can only conclude that things are going according to plan for both sides.

"Gator, what is your expertise in this area?"

None.

"Have you spent time in Gaza?"

No.

"Are you Palestinian?"

No.

"A member of Fatah or Hamas?"

No.

"Speak Arabic?"

No.

"Read Arab/Palestinian papers frequently?"

No.

"How do you have these insights into what people on the other side of the globe want, or on what they base their actions?"

Well, Bill Moyers is being touted here as an impartial, knowledgeable observer, and he stated directly that Hamas wanted Palestinian civilians to be devastated.

When Hamas was firing rockets at Israeli civilians, it knew full well that its intentional actions would provoke devastating retaliation. If Hamas does not affirmatively desire Palestinian civilian deaths, it sure as hell doesn't mind them.

"After 9/11, did you say: When the U.S. was interfering in Muslim countries and arming Israel, it knew full well that its intentional actions would provoke devastating retaliation. If the U.S. does not affirmatively desire American civilian deaths at the hands of Al Qaeda, it sure as hell doesn't mind them.'"

Golly Glenn, I thought most of us were pretty surprised by 9/11.

"When Hamas sent suicide bombers into pizza parlors, did you say: 'When Israel was occupying Palestinian land and expanding settlements, it knew full well that its intentional actions would provoke devastating retaliation. If the Israeli Government does not affirmatively desire Israeli civilian deaths, it sure as hell doesn't mind them.'"

This question is less ridiculous than your first one, but to try to answer it, I'd need to know which "Palestinian land" you are referring to. Do you mean the West Bank and Gaza, or do you include the land currently comprising Israel?

It's fair to say that there came a time when Israel knew that some of its policies (although your analogy of those policies to direct violent attacks, such as firing rockets at people, is strained) would likely result in increased attacks on Israelis. Israel's continued adherence to those policies reflects its determination that the policies were necessary or sufficiently desirable as to make the added risk worthwhile.

I guess Hamas, if it does not affirmatively desire the deaths of Palestinian civilians, has concluded that its policy of firing rockets at Israel is so vitally important that hundreds or thousands of Palestinian deaths are worth it. It's all so very sad.

Sinnard: "And if the Unites States does get hit by another terrorist cell that was in part radicalized by US support for Israel, Gator90, Shooter, and all the other deniers will be there to tell everyone that they were right and it's all the fault of the ACLU and people like Gleen Greenwald, who prevented our leaders form adequately shredding the Constitution enough to protect us, all the while wondering what we in America have ever done to piss people off that much, concluding that the terrorists must simply hate America for being America, much in the same way they believe that everyone who criticizes Israel does so because they hate Jews for being Jewish."

Chris, for as long as Glenn has been blogging, I have consistently agreed with him regarding every legal or constitutional issue he has ever discussed. I have, on many occasions in this forum and elsewhere, explicitly rejected any notion of equivalency between anti-Semitism and criticism of Israel.

I have no idea what bizarre thought process led you to attribute such opinions to me. I don't think I want to know. Just be advised that you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

You are a rude, simple-minded, inarticulate child. I'm done with you.

I too benefit from your perspective, and the grace and admirable restraint with which you express it, even though I often view matters differently.

As Glenn has sometimes noted, there are people on the "pro-Israel" side in the US who find it easy to dehumanize Palestinians. If more of them could read your contributions here, they would find it harder.

Oddly enough, the first person in this thread to use the term "anti-Semitism" was (I'm oretty sure) you, in a fit of what I would call "preemptive whining." (Followed, of course, by the obligatory Israel/Nazi analogy. Nice.)

Anti-Semitism, though rarer and often subtler than it used to be, still exists -- for a very recent example, see Scott C's comment just after your own.

Oh, and Scott, if you're reading this? Fuck you.

Ah, another delightful Nazi analogy, this time from Casual Observer. It's funny, you know -- so many societies through history (including, for sure, the United States) have inflicted far greater harm on far greater numbers of innocents than Israel ever has. But when Israel-bashers look for analogies, don't they just love to go straight to the Nazis. Wonder why that is.

As I see it, when someone analogizes Israel to Nazi Germany, there are three possible explanations: (1) the person making the analogy is abysmally ignorant of what happened in World War II, and of what the Holocaust actually entailed, and thus is sincerely unaware of the absurdity of the analogy; (2) the person making the analogy is aware of basic history but lacks sixth-grade-level reasoning skills; or (3) the person making the analogy thinks he or she has found a super-clever, oh-so-ironic way to "score points" when criticizing Israel, by means of a calculated, below-the-belt cheap shot, purposely seeking to push buttons that no decent person would push.

Sometimes it's hard to tell, but usually I think it's (3). Assholes.