- People always resent what there's too much of, and

- Kids are rapidly becoming an off-hand by-product of mothers who don't seem to give a damn.

Which is why people, like myself, call them "breeders:" 1 kid after another, spit out like so many watermelon seeds, w/out any real thought of how to raise them adequately. I've seen quite a few of these "mothers" (and that's a stretch) wear the arrogance of entitlement merely b/c they've done what animals do instinctively, depending on the season. Many of those kids thus become the sad results of lust and folly and little else--and we all pray the price for it eventually, in welfare, crime, dysfunction, and scads of fucked-up kids thanks to their "moms."

I know that's a blanket statement. I know that some mothers and even 2-parent families are still extant. But they won't earn my respect til I know they've brought their kid(s) here w/a real sense of obligation of CARING for them, and who will pay for it themselves.

Do you want children? Is your biological clock ticking?

Whose health insurance will pay for it? And whose name is on the life insurance?

You don't know? Haven't talked about it yet? Are kids important to you? What about him?

This is exactly why I'm so against moving in together. Worse still, children are still born w/out anyone talking about these matters FIRST, let alone answering these questions.

Not b/c I haven't shacked up myself, once--which is why I'll never do it again. (Whatever happened to love affairs? Way more romantic...) But these ?s are precisely why I think women waste their time by moving in together.

What you've got sounds great--for now. But the "we'll figure it out later, we're having too much fun now" is a wonderful attitude--for him. But not so much for women.

BTW--have you read TR? You'll find it for $1 at any used-book store. Read it and come back. It's not so much manipulation as it is common sense, self-respect and setting boundaries--and women knowing who they are and what they really want and being willing to wait for it.

Thank you for summing up TR so well!

At last--a woman who gets it! And yes, they DO work.

Why do you need A Life for Yourself?

B/c you'll never find it in anyone else BUT yourself.

That's why it's always a bad idea to make a "wewationship" the Be-all and End-all of your life. People will always disappoint you--even (especially) those you love.

So you always have to have that back-up plan of being WITH yourself--not BY yourself--so that you're never alone no matter what your life happens to be at any given time.

There is NO "happy ending," even if married or in a committed r'ship. Forget divorce/break-up; people die, get sick, or just leave. It happens. But as long as you've prepared to have your own life--cultivate your mind, interests, self--only then will you not only be that woman you're meant to be, but very likely that's where you'll find love.

Don't, please don't subscribe to the fairy-tale that is romance as propagated by popular media. I truly feel for young women of your age b/c you're being fed such mixed messages. be the hottest babe alive to catch that man, then move in w/him and keep him happy UNLESS you get a better offer. That's the whole point of living together, right, just in case something better happens by.

That's where young girls really lose out. You're giving away the store, especially your TIME and your youth. B/c if you're waiting for a better offer, don't forget that SO IS HE. So off he goes, and there you are, embittered--and spoiled for another man who might've treated you w/more respect. But first YOU respect yourself enough to know you deserve better.

Actually, it wouldn't hurt all women, regardless of age, to be a little more circumspect w/themselves. That was the whole point of building our own lives: so we don't head right back into the cave from whence we emerged, w/all the wonderful choices of life that you and I now enjoy, only to see them go down the toilet. And all this b/c we "had to have a man or (we're) not happy."

Sez who? You sound like a catch--so act like one. I know I am--and I do, even at my age.

b/c too many people have it backwards: they live together first BEFORE determining they're compatible enough to marry.

Although I too have "shacked up," it's not something I'll ever do again. Women are just wasting their time by doing so. Face it: when you live together, you fall into roles: he's taking out the trash (or doing something productive besides wasting your time), and you're doing all the domestic drudge. That's just the way it is.

So living together is (1) a way of getting steady sex while you're BOTH looking around for a better deal and (2) the biggest time-waster for women b/c all she's getting, besides laid, is OLDER. Sorry, but if a man has to think about whether or not he wants me, I can save him the trouble and let him go NOW.

Thus TR's usefulness. I daresay that the manipulation could be played down somewhat--not so Helen Gurley Brown--but largely, TR does make some sense. The business of "don't play hard to get--BE hard to get" still holds true: IOW, ladies, get a life. Not every pot has its cover, and if yours doesn't, then you can still have a very good life--one that's even enviable. Remember that "married" and "happy" aren't synonymous, or half of all marriages wouldn't end in divorce.

I'm dating in my 50s, and I still believe passionately in TR's basic premise: why do you want a man who doesn't want YOU?