...The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Act (HR1955, passed; S1959, in committee) plus the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act equals not a return to McCarthyism, but to the days of the first Red Scare and the Palmer Raids.

Hell, one Andrew Stepanian is serving 3 years participating in a non-violent protest which happened be successful, thereby violating the earlier Animal Enterprise Protection Act.

Says Andrew, "I sat through a court case of about 40 days, and at the end of it, I was convicted, mainly on evidence stemming from my attendance at a protest against an auditing firm by the name of Deloitte & Touche. The prosecutors claim that because Deloitte & Touche severed its relationship with Huntingdon Life Sciences, Huntingdon Life Sciences may have incurred more than $10,000 in damages. And as long as a threshold of $10,000 is met, I could participate in legal activities leading up to that point, but the second I cause $10,000 of intellectual damage, then I could be charged under this conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act. I would be charged with a substantive charge if I actually destroyed some property, for example, that was worth $10,000, but in this case, it was a purely intellectual matter." (http://www.democracynow.org/2006/10/3/first_member_of_shac_7_heads)

If the government and imprison a man for participating in a perfectly legal (but successful) protest before VRHTA and AETA and before the official legalization of warrantless spying, imagine what the government can and will do with it's Congressionally-approved powers.

And while right-wingers out there may say, "P'shaw! What do I care about animal rights freaks and the blame-America-firsters?" I say: Remember Waco. Remember Ruby Ridge. Remember them because the government doesn't have to rely on trumped-up child abuse or gun charges to get you anymore.

I mean, @Electro Robot - er, @Robot2 - uh, @Robot3? - wait, it's "James T. Kirk" now, isn't it? Damn, son, you've got more noms de guerre than Lev Bronstein!

Anyway:"Look, practically speaking most of the countries in the world routinely spy on their citizens with no legal restraint at all. You're always saying we're the worst of the worst. So there you have it."

So you're saying, "Everything is everything?" When did you become such a moral relativist?

Shorter JTK:Everyone's Doing It

First of all, what the UK, France, or any other country does or doesn't do is irrelevant to discussion, which is about our values and the laws that are supposed to protect them.

It doesn't matter that we have failed to protect and uphold those values and laws in the past (Sedition Acts of 1798, the First and Second Red Scares, COINTELPRO, etc) or are failing to do so at this moment in the name of a "War on Terror" either.

What you seem to be saying is that because we and others have failed and continue to fail to live up to those values, it's silly to defend those values at all. It's like saying that because there has been antisemitism and continues to be antisemitism, there's no point in trying to fight antisemitism, a formulation I hope you'd reject. Ditto for slavery.

Second, it's entirely possible to agree - admire even - an aspect or policy (say, the social safety nets) of other countries and still disapprove of other aspects and policies, so your comment about Salon readers and their supposed admiration of other certain aspects of other nations is likewise beside the point.

To summarize, both of your arguments are beside the point. As usual. If you think the U.S. government should be allowed to spy on U.S. citizens - in- or out-country - without a warrant, come out and say so and justify it without claiming, "But everyone's doing it!"

The "shield" that Mieszkowsi is referring to isn't the protection that vaccinations provide to an individual. Rather, she's referring to the social shield that the vaccinated-many create for the non-vaccinated few which prevents once common diseases from regaining a foothold. As more parents decide rely on this social shield, there will be fewer actual shield-bearers (to extend the metaphor) to protect the non-vaccinated from exposure.

Great minds, and all that...

...I'm not sure how seriously to take Brother Unknown, what is known is that many American soldiers who learned torture techniques in the Philippines during the Spanish-American War and its aftermath continued to use those techniques (including water torture)(excuse me, "water boarding") as law enforcement officers in the States. From a few a few of these "bad apples," rot spread throughout American law enforcement - especially at the local level, especially in the south from where many of the soldiers hailed, and especially against Blacks and immigrants - no grand conspiracies needed.

See the 1931 "Report on Lawlessness in Law Enforcement" by the Wickersham Commission. Click sig.

You're confusing "Since You Asked..." with "Savage Love." :-)

Defend his policies from criticism? Explain where he's going to get the troops for an Afghan "surge"? Provide evidence that his health care plan will get everyone covered and control costs? Give us concrete proof that the Iranians have the bomb or will get it in the next 15 years? Demonstrate how pumping more oil 15-years from now will bring down prices today? Clarify how cutting the gas tax will NOT result in a price hike from increased demand or explain why oil companies wouldn't just keep prices the same and pocket the tax savings themselves? Explain why his "Reform Institute" takes massive, unregulated donations from corporations and their lobbyists? Explain why his "Reform Institute" employs active lobbyists? Explain why the tax-payer should bail out big banks who lobbied and fully took advantage of the very deregulation that caused today's financial crisis and otehrwise justify his "socialism for the rich?"?

Campaign positively for himself rather than against Obama?

That shit's too hard for an old man. Cut the guy some slack!