This idea that we have of ourselves, that we are more virtuous than the rest of the world, and are therefore anointed to set it right at our convenience, was always a blasphemous presumption, and now that we've seen where it's led us, and where we've followed without much protest, I can't see that we've much right to mourn the very real American virtues our folly has obscured. Not, at any rate, until we set our own house in order.

-- William Timberman

Humility is the most underrated of virtues.

For all the JFKs out there who want to Do Justice, in caps, because they are so good and virtuous, seems they've forgotten the rest of Micah's injunction: What does the Lord require of you? Do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly.

Because wise men know that those who think they can remake other people's worlds, without remembering kindness and humility, will inevitably fall into the traps of empire and the many sins of pride.

Hard to believe there are people who want to torture anyone when lilacs are in bloom.

-- IntrovertGirl

And that is really the absolute bottom line reality. The keys to the kingdom. The whole point to the universe. Yes.

You taking the piss, luv?

-- IntrovertGirl

Um, huh? 'splain me this, please?

Thanks for the explanation -- and for the new vocab. :)

No, I wasn't making fun of you IVG. Smelling the lilacs IS really the center of the universe and the meaning of life. People, just going about their business, doing what they do in their own little worlds, not bothering anybody, enjoying God's creation. That's it, that's the high point. For me, anyway. Which is why I get so PISSED OFF at the neo-cons and their "ilk" (why do I hate that word?), their co-religionists and fellow travelers, who don't want people smelling the beautiful flowers and minding their own business. They want death and glory and power.

Lilacs is more important. And better.

BTW LWM, I's a girl.

I'm one of those "conservatives" who before the 2000 election irritated my liberal friends by saying that GWB was no conservative, in fact, he was just a dumber and even less principled version of his old man.

In that, I maligned his old man (who, while maybe an imperialist, not a fascist). GWB is and was not a conservative, he is a fascist with Trotskyite flourishes (what a great combo!).

Unfortunately, those people around me -- and in the Republican party and the media -- whom I thought were conservatives turned out to be fascists, as well. It's certainly difficult now to trust anyone in the Republican party, let alone forgive them for what they have to done to this world.

Don't know where this leaves me, but I've certainly learned a lot in the last 6 years and thought about a lot of stuff that I had taken for granted. I certainly don't identify as a Republican-leaning libertarian any more.

Just one question, from a "conservative" who's feeling a bit beat up and discouraged today: how come the Dems get to disassociate themselves from the Dixiecrats but the Repubs have to suffer with their ghosts (not that they don't have living ghouls to deal with, but that's a different question). Weren't most KKK members before 1970 Dems?

I'll go away now.

What have you guys got to offer us so far except the fraudulent whining Glenn documents so thoroughly in this post?

Nuttin. But it sounded to me like a number of peoples, including yuz, were claiming that all Repubs from all time wuz bad,and all Dems were good and the few bad historical Dems weren't really and truly Dems (which seems to be pretty much what some of the Repubs are trying to do now).

Which is not to say that I haven't given up on the Repubs. I have. It will take a mighty mighty something big to get me to vote Repub ever again, cept for Ron Paul, but he doesn't really count since the Repubs don't like him either.

But Lyndon Johnson and Scoop Jackson are surely on the black mark side of the tally for the Dems.

Don't you really think that LBJ deserves most of the credit (sic) for Vietnam?

I would never call LBJ a great man, although he was certainly larger than life, and certainly much more of an interesting person than the current narcissistic puddinhead' occupying the Oval Office. LBJ and Nixon remind me very much of each other, although their personalities were obviously at opposite poles. Both very bright, both very ambitious, both loving power, both capable of thinking out large problems and leading well -- LBJ on progressive issues, Nixon on the outreach to China -- but both ultimately done in by their own hubris. Classic Greek tragedy in both cases.

On the surface, I'd say I'd rather "hang out" with LBJ -- but then he was also known for forcing his sexual favors on unwilling women, which doesn't dispose me towards him personally. Oddly enough, a few people I know who knew Nixon said that he was invariably thoughtful and polite to the people who worked for him.

Both of them much "greater" men than Little Bush, but both of them highly flawed people who did great damage to this country.

Hagel seems to see what's going on, and has objected quite strenuously to many of the more egregious of the Bush Regime's sins -- but he continues to this day to vote with the Repubs. Chaffee, ditto. Why they did not have the guts to stand up when it really counted is a question I hope they will answer one day.

Obviously, I know Chaffee was booted -- tenses can be so unnerving.