First and foremost, above all, what the Salonistas want, is a defeat for Bush and Cheney.

Defeat for Bush and Cheney is a moot point. In most ways, they're already defeated. Bush is regarded as perhaps the worst president in US history, and his "Bush Doctrine" is in tatters. Given that, I do think it is vitally important for this defeat to be universally acknowledged and shown for what it is: a disastrous decision by someone who should have never been appointed to the presidency, for reasons that were very corrupt and ill conceived. This mess can't be shrugged off to the next president with the blame placed on him/her. Blame must be acknowledged correctly.

Right now, the entire Iraq policy by BushCo has narrowed down to one single goal: to prevent the Iraq disaster from being officially labeled as such (through an inevitable pull-out where no goals have been met) until they can safely point their fingers at someone else. That's it. That was the point of the surge, the appointment of Petraeus, and every single other policy initiative on Iraq over the past 2 years or more.

To support this goal, they need a major PR offensive so that just less than a critical mass of Americans realize that they're being taken for a ride. All of Petraeus' statements are part of this PR offensive, as was the junket to Iraq by Pollack and O'Hanlon. These tactics convince the stupidest among us that real progress is being made, so that BushCo can move closer to their goal. However, overwhelming data to the contrary keeps pouring in, and the administration continues to downplay expectations while moving the goal posts.

If I were at a car dealership with these kinds of shenanigans going on, you can be sure I'd hang on to my wallet.

So yeah, suicide bombers suck. I hope that makes you feel better, Elephantman, that someone here has stated something so glaringly obvious. Stating that, however, does nothing. Shall we go after the terrorists ("we" meaning not you or I, but our military whom we abuse)? Well, that's certainly being done, regardless of whether or not we think suicide bombers suck. On the other hand, should we let our disgust with suicide bombers cloud our understanding of the issue, so that "let's go after those terrorists" becomes the focus instead of "what the hell are we still doing in Iraq?" Your answer is obviously an emphatic "YES!!!" And that, among many other reasons, is why you are ridiculed every time you post here.

Don't be a coal miner if you don't want to get trapped underground

Anonymous, there is certainly a valid point you are making: what about personal responsibility? I chose my own profession, as a mature adult, and if aspects of it get me down, I have no one to blame but myself. That's reality in Grown-Up World.

So why is it so different for the troops? Well, the key difference is that, despite their own motivations for enlisting (education, career training, escape from economically depressed area, etc), the efforts of the troops in theory are to protect us all. Sure, the military hasn't been used for defense since, what, 1945? But the theory remains. Therefore, they do deserve extra sympathy for their plight.

But not absolute sympathy. They do have some responsibility for the state of their own lives, right? They also should have some responsibility for what they're creating in the larger world through their personal choices. I mean, if the US military were a quarter of its size, think of the peace that would ensue. (Sure, Republicans are likely to argue that it's our enormous military that provides whatever peace the world has, which is a larger argument that I don't buy.) In short, enlisting in the US military can also be considered irresponsible given today's political climate, not completely unlike buying a new Suburban to drive alone to work.

This shouldn't be considered a blanket insult of our troops. Many of them (I expect) do enlist for altruistic reasons, and do believe they're there to protect us. I believe these people are seriously misguided, but in many ways it's the thought that counts. I thank them for that. And hope they'll see their way out of their own private quagmire, which will hopefully see the country out of its larger one.

As for your other examples:

• coal miners, what are you whining about?:

  Similar situation

• Hey, victims of domestic violence

  That's a bit different, as these victims have generally not made the conscious choice to put themselves in that position

• Hey, kids who got molested by a priest

  And this is completely different. Those kids have done nothing to choose their fate; they've just been innocent kids in the presence of pedophiles