Wow.

I'm sorry I wrote that you never said what you want.

...ask these modern day leaders of ours, these intelligent bloggers such as Glenn and others to put their heads together and come up with a plan... To be honest with you I don't have a good handle on how it would all shake out... Which is, in part, why I come to a blog such as this. Looking for leaders.

You said you want Glenn to figure out what you want.

So speaks the big scary radical.

Get over yourself, dude.

I just don't know enough about these interrogation techniques to give an opinion whether and when they would succeed in extracting useful information.

This is not meant as mean-spirited, but it is really difficult to believe that you've lived in this country (or, really, anywhere in the Anglosphere) for the past seven years and haven't heard the many, many reports on the inefficacy of torture.

I'd strongly recommend - again, as humbly as I can - that if you're going to engage in such a long, drawn out debate on a subject, that you'd at least take the time to minimally inform yourself.

I'm feeling all Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young about now...

...a hippie.

The problem is that there is no "will" among a broad enough cross section of the public to make these tactics effective on a large scale.

Ché, if you are expecting this "will" to spring - fully formed like Athena from the forehead of Zeus - out of nowhere, then yeah, you're going to find exactly what you expect to find.

Every successful revolution, bar none, has been the end result of patient organizing. None has ever come about as a result of people giving up before they've even tried.

One good starting place: how about a coherent set of demands? One of the things that fascinates me about the Chés/adnotos of the world is their complaint that people aren't rising up in support of... what, exactly? Give people a reason to fight before you castigate them for being "sheeple."

This whole thing of so-called revolutionaries who love "the people" in the abstract but seem to dislike people in specific is as old as the hills...

I'm telling you nothing would accomplish it at this point. Not going to have a Revolution. It's not going to happen. Not NOW.

Glad that's clear. Anything else? K.

Now that you've totally given up, of course, you have lost all credibility to bitch about the current state of affairs. You do realize that, right?

You are now, officially, among the Sheeple. However, you get to be totally aware of it. At least "they" have the excuse of being "pig ignorant."

Timothy3, you're... either a liar or an idiot.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Maybe he's a "liediot!" It's possible... my girlfriend has a "puggle;" and according to her I am a "douchehole."

Avoid The Trap Of Dualistic Thinking. That is all.

Why can't you write about more than one topic per day?

Nice one. Yeah, Glenn loves advice on how often/what to write.

Seriously, it's pretty common for him to double dip... one a day is almost an exception. On October 12 of this year - which I believe was the day of the Non-Drowsy Allergy Medicine Festival in Brazil - he went for four:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/10/12/

Speaking as one who struggles to even do a single blog post per day - often on topics that require little or no research - I think you underestimate the difficulty of even that seemingly low bar.

I wasn't trying to be a dick, either. I was poking fun at you, really... but if you haven't been paying attention to how often Glenn posts, then maybe you should have, you know, checked before you offered your encouragement.

Anyway, you could have waited maybe half an hour:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/radio/2008/12/05/grossman

Did the Right revolution happen because the masses were troubled by the supposed excesses of the 60s?

Or did it happen because they had their shit together and organized? Hint: churches are organizations.

It's fine if you want to keep asserting that organization is totally irrelevant to revolution, but it'd be more persuasive if you could show that organization hasn't been the pivotal factor in every revolution to date.

Of course, if you couldn't, you might have to re-evaluate your whole stance, which is probably discomfiting.

It is educating the masses to what has happened to them that will bring real change.

I respectfully disagree.

I respectfully submit that the masses know more than you think they do about exactly how this country works, and have a (to some extent, entirely valid) skepticism about the possibility for real change.

Organize the masses, win victories, beef up their hearts. You'll see change. This is not theory... this is history.

Are we talking about the activities at Abu Gharaib (sp?) where prisoners were humiliated?

People were murdered at Abu Ghraib. The "fraternity pranks" were the least of it:

The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology later ruled al-Jamadi's death a homicide, caused by "blunt force injuries to the torso complicated by compromised respiration."

http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_5

Please, if you're intentionally being Amity's straight man, continue. If you're really getting sucked in by his shtick, continue.

Either way, it's comedy gold.

You get "paid to loaf in an office chair all day, rhapsodising on the ethical dilemmas posed by this program or that operation?"

Need an assistant? I actually did advanced study in Loafing/Rhapsodizing at the Harvard School of Ethical Dilemmas... I don't even need my own chair.

if the poor fool is on "Facebook", he's lost, lost, lost . . .

...u jus say that cause he has moar frenz than u

You really are deaf in this range, aren't you?

The attached link may explain the nuances of sysprog's position on torture:

http://tinyurl.com/2w4apm - click my sig