Although I know that greed corrupts, corporations are not the only guilty party. Corporations have improved our quality of life far more than any government program.

Now that's at least a coherent argument around which two honest interlocutors could have an interesting dialog. I agree with you on the first statement... don't really know how you'd go about quantifying the second, but it's at least open to debate.

When I think "government program," though, I tend to imagine roads and bridges, whereas I wonder if you see welfare queens mackin' Escalades...

There is no other way to bring about change in our life time.

Admirable thoughts, I was with you until the "no other way" bit. I rather think that's the flip side of the idea that there's "no other way" to bring about change except to work within the system.

I think all these things should be tried, don't get me wrong... but I am deeply, deeply pessimistic about anything from the outside bringing the current duopoly down.

Anything, I mean, short of a broadly-based, community centered revolution that begins in church and union hall, at kitchen tables and bars and university cafeterias the length and breadth of the land... culminating in a series of nonviolent general strikes that brings the current system to its knees in a great convulsion and institutes true democracy.

(I keep trying to get adnoto to lead the charge, but he just tells me he's sick of dragging my sorry ass around.)

It's that or the empire going the way of all empires, leaving or once-great nation looking like a low-budget Australian flick from the 70s. And I'm OK going the Mad Max route -- so long as I can drive the supercharged Holden.

Since this thread has gone somewhat moribund, I hope you'll excuse me if I pimp for my favorite writer on the Web. He's Glenn Greenwald plus a long lifetime of intellectual curiosity and cynicism. If you don't read him regularly, you should.

Arthur Silber is, by his own description, in quite poor health. When he stopped posting for nearly two months this summer, many of us feared the worst. He's back, and in full-throated roar. I definitely want to encourage you to check out one of his latest essays "Psst -- While You Were Gibbering, the Ruling Class Rigged the Game and Won Everything (I): The Personal Touch" (link at sig) - and bring your attention span.

He survives largely on PayPal donations to his blog. If you like what you read, I urge you to drop just a small donation. If only a few of you do, it will make a difference in his life.

That in the end, is the reason for this unseemly "advertisement." My apologies if I've broken netiquette here. I do think it's rather important, though.

bad linky. D'oh!

First step: defeat McCain.

And the second step? I agree that we'd be far worse off with McCain at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but I don't understand how it follows that talking about the bipartisan enslavement to corporate interests is somehow counterproductive during an election year.

If not now, then when?

AFTER the election

Right. Because that's worked so well before.

Look, it's fine - if your point is, let's not shit all over Obama and throw the election to McCain, I'm with you. The idea, though, that there's something wrong with even pointing out the flaws of our own side when they need our votes just doesn't make any sense to me.

Exactly how much motivation will they have to do anything to resist corporate pressure when they are safely in office - when they have proven that they will vote for them no matter what?

"... that we will vote for them no matter what."

You too, sir, are SO right. I live in Boston, my car is a more-or-less permanent fixture on a Brighton street, and I bike when I don't have the time/patience to ride the T. The absolute oblivious of both cars and drivers is a constant source of amazement to me.

It's actually enjoyable to ride through the city with all your senses opened, constantly scanning your environment for sources of potential danger. You also hear the little birds feeding on the seeds some guy spread on his lawn, the sounds of people arguing in Urdu or Hmong, a snatch of music from a window as you speed past.

There's a whole world out there. You can pay attention to it... or it will run your ass down.

When a pissing contest turns into just taking the piss... I love you guys sometimes. It's why I keep hitting reload.

That, and procrastinating on my writing.

I finally understand where your anger comes from.

Which is, in part, why I come to a blog such as this. Looking for leaders.

I think it is misplaced: Glenn has never, ever, ever positioned himself as a leader at all. But at least I understand it.

You have my sympathy, and I don't mean that as snark.

It's stuff like this, that gives loudmouth libs the reputation of being stupidly violent.

Liberals have that kind of reputation? Awesome. I thought it was all about lattes and arugula. Who knew liberals were so scary?