my policy is go with the flow until I die, at which point I will begin an intensive program of no-thought.

I'm with you!

A Zen master visiting New York City goes up to a hot dog vendor and says, "Make me one with everything."

The hot dog vendor fixes a hot dog and hands it to the Zen master, who pays with a $20 bill.

The vendor puts the bill in the cash box and closes it. "Excuse me, but where’s my change?" asks the Zen master.

The vendor responds, "Change must come from within."

The Wikipedia definition is unsatisfying:

he concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.

but close enough for rock 'n' roll.

It's a habit... I went to college in the 2000s, so I have the Firefox right-click menu ready at hand, etc. It's pretty much allowed my medium term memory to atrophy, but that's... that's... what was I saying?

Various non-profits and even elected officials have direct or indirect links to the MexicanGovernment, and that government has not only said they're going to be using non-profits to push their agenda, but they encouraged their citizens in our country - and even Mexican-Americans - to push their agenda.

I'd be interested in how much power you really think the "MexicanGovernment" has in this country. What "agenda" are these non-profits pushing (can non-profits "push?") that's different than the program shared by money interests on both sides of the border: move dirty industries south, bring cheap labor over to drive wages down but keep those people technically "illegal" so they can be controlled.

I'm serious. What does this "MexicanGovernment" want that they haven't got already? I'm hoping you're not going to bust out ameros and NorthAmerican SuperHighways... but even so, isn't that something that's supposed to be on the agenda of both major parties?

Ever read any of Wilber's books? Or just this interview?

Just curious.

What has Rev. Wright said that was "racist?" Let's see if you can answer that without twisting the term to mean "any mention of race as a problem in America."

Tell me... do they have classes in forming the false equivalence, or is it something you wingers just pick up from each other?

Marx's teaching of historical dialectical materialism is the exact rationale Stalin and Mao used to justify mass murder.

That's a very confident, erudite sentence. Presumably, since you stated that so blithely, it won't be hard for you to tell me exactly where in the writings of Marx he called for "mass murder."

Yeah, I noticed that too.

I'd add that "I'm as liberal as they come..." is pretty much an infallible marker for concern-trollery - I think they teach that locution at Troll U.

By coming on here, and, bless 'em, really trying their damndest to defend the indefensible, they are showing the precise limitations of their own worldview

I'm not convinced that our trolls represent the most robust defense of that worldview... they come here for the meager entertainment of yanking our chains, and in return provide the meager entertainment (to some of us) of shooting fish in a barrel.

By definition, intelligent advocates of a particular worldview don't troll. I have "slummed" on some right-wing sites and occasionally had a decent debate; however, the level of abuse you have to filter out at such places generally takes all the pleasure out of the experience.

Shooter and Nasalfiber are like Wile E. Coyote - no matter how many times they get blown up, they'll be back with another foolish gambit. It's funny sometimes, but you do end up feeling like you've seen the cartoon before...

Are you asserting the left is without sin

Yes, Shooter. That's exactly what we're asserting.

On a related note, when was the last time you commented regarding bad behavior by conservatives? By your own definition, does that make you a hypocrite, or not?

where'd all the comments go....?

Add deucey to your taxonomy of concern trolls: the "tone troll..."

I think of you as more a concern platypus... neither fish nor fowl.

;->

Is GG being punished?

He posted - what? - four times on Tuesday?

I figure Salon's just paying him piecework...

There are only two possibilities...

Why only two? You may be right, but you didn't make your case - just saying "there are only two" is not especially persuasive. What does "impetus brought to bear" mean? Can you bring "impetus" to bear? Do you mean "pressure?" Why are you assuming that Hoyer and Carney are being "pressured" rather than the alternative possibility Glenn raises and has raised - that they actually support telecom immunity?

To continue: what does HBIC mean? Why must we assume the second most powerful member in the United States House of Representatives has to ask for permission from the Speaker before he does anything? Why does it make sense to target someone other than the person actually taking the action you are protesting?

Sorry for all the questions, but there is a reason why the argument by assertion is such an ill-regarded rhetorical technique. It generates little heat, and no light.

Cheers.

I agree, this subject is certainly fraught with emotion, on both sides.

May I suggest, if a dispassionate "discussion" is your goal, that it might not be the best approach to start with the statement that someone is calling for the suicide of all Israeli Jews?

best,

Paul

I'd like to know - if at all possible, free from scornful condescension - what you find "practical" about a garrisonned monoethic enclave surrounded by walls and bristling with nuclear weapons, and "Utopian" about the idea of a negotiated settlement.

Do you think the current status quo is in any way sustainable over the long term?