Excuse me, but I think if you are repeatedly raped by your father, and repeatedly shot up with drugs by your father, then you gradually begin to think "well, this is how I like it", you are not in any position to give consent to a fast-food drive-in order, let alone a sexual relationship with your father.

OK. Fine. Lets just ignore everything Mackenzie Phillips has to say for herself, and just make up her own history for her. The history that we think should apply. The history that fits with our own agenda and opinion. Because, obviously, this grown adult woman is in no condition to speak for herself with regard to what happened to her and what she did.

I never said, or implied, that incest of any kind was a valid lifestyle choice. Nor did I say, or imply, that what occurred between MacKenzie Phillips and her father was in any way healthy or OK. All I said was that she should be taken at her word when she said that not all of the sex that she had with her father was against her will. Unhealthy? Yes. Crazy? Yes. Regrettable? Clearly. But nonconsensual? She herself is saying no. Who are you to question that?

The deep psyche can be a dark place, and people consent all the time to things that they know are wrong, or crazy, or ugly, or will be regretted, for all kinds of crazy reasons. Psychology can explain those choices, but it doesn't make them any less valid.

If I am not mistaken, Phillips' father did not say that to her. "I have been waiting for this since you were 10 years old," if I understand correctly, is something Mick Jagger said to her - presumably, at some point in her teenage or young adult years.

That, at least, is the story as I have heard it. Please correct me if I am mistaken in that.

OK. Missed the "significantly older person" part. My apologies. No further comnment.

The timeline is not being brought up to exonerate the father. After all, everyone has stipulated that the initial sexual contact in the relationship was nonconsensual, and as far as I can tell, nobody is saying that her relationship with the man was healthy. The timeline is being brought up to validate what Mackenzie Phillips is saying about her own experience for those who would doubt or second guess her in order to make her story fit with their own agenda. The bottom line is that Mackenzie Phillips, a 43 year old woman whose mental capacity, at this point, is not in doubt, has said that, at some point in her adult life, she consented to her fathers sexual advances. Juliebird attempted to analogize her experience to child abuse in order to infantilize the woman so that her claim about the sex being consensual could be discredited and attributed to the evil misdeeds of her father, but the fact remains that, at the time that Mackenzie Phillips claims that the relationship turned consensual, she was well into the age of reason, and well into sexual maturity, and thus able to legitimately consent to sex, irregardless of how troubled her childhood may have been. Furthermore is the fact that she is not making this claim as a drug-addicted 20 year old, in the middle of the chaotic and confusing swirl of the releationship itself, but now, as an older and wiser woman with 25 years of perspective.

There is no reason at this point, other than personal agenda, to doubt Mackenzie Phillips claims about this. Furthermore, its not exactly a flattering admission, and, as her sisters have said, there is no obvious benefit to her making something like this up. If you want to respect her as a person, you should take her at her word on this.

"She's bare, and she 'looks eight'"

"She looks all of 12 years old"

She plays "a rebellious, uniform sporting 16 year old."

The actress who plays her is "in fact, a full 10 years older than the creepy ad would have you believe." Which would make her, what? Eighteen? Twenty Two? Twenty Six?

All over the map with this one, eh?

I looked at the picture and saw a bare-shouldered young woman, somewhere between 16 and 20 years old. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. And as far as I am concerned, the only age that really matters is her real age. Which, as I pointed out above, is apparently somewhere between 18 and 26. Everything else is just Mary Elizabeth Williams - or whoever else she is quoting - making stuff up for sensational effect.

P.S.: Would also like to point out the return of Creepy - Broadsheet's pejorative of choice.

There is no evidence or indication that Letterman threatened anyone or made any quid-pro-quo offer. What happened between Letterman and the women he had sex with has not been described as harassment, and hasn't been described as anything but consensual. No allegation has been made, and no evidence has been offered, to the effect that anyone's job was at stake here.

You are injecting things into this discussion that need not, and ought not, be present, as they do not relate to the situation as currently understood. Until and unless any of the above conditions changes, the assumptions you have made remain unfair and unhelpful.

Xanthro did not state that sex with the boss was merely bad, or could lead to a hostile work environment, whatever the hell that means. Xanthro made the assumption that sex with the boss is, by default, sex under duress and therefore nonconsensual. This is simply not true. People consent to sex with their working superiors all the time. The fact that it is perhaps a bad idea doesn't mean it can't possibly be consensual, nor does it invalidate the consent once granted.