Note that this preposterous church is in Watertown, New York. The Christianists are everywhere in the USA. But I believe they have peaked. This story, and many stories like it, plus the venom that their radio hosts and kooky leaders spew, are warning people away from them, finally (maybe).

Maybe people on the coasts are not aware how close the fundamentalists are, and how far-out they are, and how sneaky they can be. One source for detail is this website: www.talk2action.org

I can't resist posting again. We really need not follow what Paul says, even though it is in the Bible.

I see this as a matter of either following Paul, or following Jesus. And we must choose Jesus. Paul himself told us to do that, whenever we are in doubt.

She is perfectly articulate and bright, even though she is old. (One might suspect she might be dotty after 54 years in Sunday School, but no.)

And they showed her pastor, the guy who fired her: A shark-faced, flat-head grinning goon without much to say.

This pastor and the congregation are supposed to cherish her and revere her. In black American congregations, they usually call senior life-long members such as this woman, "Saints." But here, no.

Posters should know that teaching Sunday School is a volunteer situation. This woman was not exactly fired. It is more as if her church just plowed her under, with a legally correct letter of dismissal and spiritually corrupt zeal.

No real worries though: She already has Sunday School teaching offers from five other churches!

Women and girls need to speak straight to women and girls on birth control and everything else. The Christianist opposition's biggest weakness is that their leaders are nasty old men who do not really even understand the issue.

"Mr. Bush is the worst president in American history. He is the second-worst president in Iraqi history. Next question?"

Air Assault!

1. Please give McCain some credit for his anti-torture legislation. He is the only person who stood up and got anything done.

2. Bush has set up the false choice of his own Iraq agenda versus cut-and-run. But McCain seems headed toward staying in Iraq, and operating competently, and creating a happier ending. Maybe this cannot be done. But it may be the only approach most American voters will accept.

Let's listen for specifics from McCain. I cannot imagine what he might do to fix Iraq, but I desperately want to fix Iraq. McCain hates Bush, and McCain has military experience. Nobody else in the race offers any hope on Iraq. Let's see what McCain has to say.

All Michael Shermer's talk about wonder and infinity and such is the same darn thing as some Christian's talk about his God. The devil is in the details, and to hell with the details!

No point in debating whether we call the wonder/infinity/awe "God" or not. Just know that we humans do not and cannot understand, that life and the cosmos are bigger than we are... So take a humble approach.

It does not matter what we call it. That is just a word game. (Notice that three of the first six posters here get into grammar?)

Do not bring truth down to that level. My dad said that if you wrassle with turds, you will get dirty even if you win. Stay clean! Rock on!

Too much emphasis on the intellectual in Michael Shermer's approach, with other channels disrespected. Example: Any good musician will tell you that music is impossible to understand. It is all feeling.

Create! Do not debate. Mystery is real. Paradox is holy. Blithe bla-bla-bla is a shallow waste of precious time.

If I get the differential fixed, you can ride in my Olds convertible when you campaign through Detroit.

Back in the Age of Aquarius, I was two years too young to be drafted for the Vietnam War. But if Vietnam had continued, I would have gone.

Now, I have ten nephews and nieces who are the right age to be drafted for Iraq and Iran and wherever else! I hope they all move to Canada. Take me instead!

We used to believe that bad, dangerous, whacky American presidents were the exception to the norm. That was our attitude toward Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. We thought it obvious that they should be more like FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower.

Now we have the worst president of all, and there is no strong, "normal" alternative in sight. Some candidate (McCain???) needs to take a strong stand. Sidney Blumenthal and Garrison Keillor are doing it, but they are not candidates.

Would Jimmy Carter run again?????????

Who are you, Patricia Schwartz, and how the heck do you know all this stuff? Will you consider running for president?

All the things Katherine Harris said are standard fundamentalist positions in standard fundamentalist jargon. You can hear the same ideas in the same words every day on "Christian" radio talk shows, plus a lot more.

Please tune in your local Christianist on the radio, and listen for a week or so. And maybe send the radio host a few mild, reasoning e-mails. Try to build a bridge, and get rejected, and realize how odd and fierce these people are.

Please listen to these Pharisees, and realize that they are all around us, all around the USA.

It appears, though, that they may have peaked. They cannot get anybody elected just by themselves. And they hate everybody else, so they will not make many more political alliances. Perhaps we can survive them.

Most of you are more in touch than I. So, please tell me: Is this the first time this idea ever has surfaced? If so, we need a lot more than this little Salon reference!

Is there a history of W.Bush-related Third Term Talk? Where can we look it up? If not, please write about this in depth tomorrow. The mere idea is a mind-blower.