Okay, one more time:

NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE IRANIAN ELECTIONS.

Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, knows this election was fixed. There is not a rational person anywhere in the world who doesn't knows this unless they're in a fucking coma.

Ahmadinejad supposedly won in Mousavi's hometown by double digits. Are you fucking kidding me?

And also, one more time:

WE ARE NOT BEHIND THIS. WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS.

We are not supporting the reformers. We are not supporting Ahmadinejad. We are not supporting anyone in Iran. We are not responsible for the election rigging. We are not responsible for the protests/rioting after the election was rigged. We are not going into Iran. We have no presence in Iran. We have no influence in Iran. We do not even fly over Iran.

Can you please, PLEASE cut the self loathing American shit out? It's really pathetic.

Never said they were atypical. They are sadly typical. But they are irrelevant, because we have nothing to do with any of what's going on. We have no influence in Iran. We have not had influence there in thirty years. How can you not grasp the concept that not everything that happens in the world is because of us and our evil tentacles? Are you really that vain?

And you didn't say they are close linguistically and/or culturally. You said Afghanistan is 'hardly "an entirely different country"', based on your notion of borders really being nothing more than 'legal fictions'. Legal fictions that Iranian soldiers died by the hundred thousands to keep the Iraqis from walking over.

(I know we funded the Iraqis in that war. Not relevant to any of this. Stay on point.)

Its very easy for you to casually suggest utter nonsense like American intervention or involvement in Iranian elections, dismissing everything people are dying for on the other side of the world as nothing more than just pawns in your nation's cynical game. God forbid they might actually be trying to do something positive for themselves that has absolutely nothing to do with you.

While I fully admit that I rely my belief that Iran elections were fixed is based solely on circumstantial/anecdotal evidence, nothing concrete, can you see that what you presented is pretty much the same? Two men who site not one fact just their opinion and anecdotal stories, and a pre-election poll.

Is it possible the election was fair? Did Azirs actually vote against a fellow Azir by nearly twenty points? Did Mousavi's own home also vote against him overwhlemingly? As did the urban centers, who overwhelmingly showed support for Mousavi before the vote? Its possible, I guess. But on the scale that it is also possible that the moon landing was faked.

Blaming Obama in any way shape or form is utter nonsense. Unless you want to claim that Obama's words got the reformists more votes, and so therfore he's responsible for the hard liners needing to steal this from them. Even that is tenuous. Not to mention absurd.

And how exactly is he trumped in Israel? While Netenyahu's acceptance of a two state solution is pretty laughable considering his stipulations, he has at least accepted it as a concept. Which is a good start. And which is far more than Bush could get from Israel in eight years.

Really, when you cite one guy who has no foreign policy experience and another person who is so stupid she probably thinks Iran is in Africa, you don't really have all that sound a foundation.

You actually think its a good idea to let Israel start a war with Iran, which would draw in just about every country in the region, hopelessly outnumbering them? You really hate the Jewish state so much you want it wiped off the face of the Earth?

This isn't forty years ago, when all the Arab nations hated each other, were underarmed, poorly trained, and unorganized. The conflict Israel had last year in Gaza shows that. Israel would get massacred today in a full scale war, whether we help them or not.

And getting Netanyahu to publicly accept the two state solution as a possibility is huge, even if you for some reason think that its was a bad thing. Now Obama will have ammo to take to the Palestinians to get them to make more concessions of some sort, showing that the Israelis have moved. Then he goes back to the Israelis and so on.

Whether this approach works or not I don't know, maybe so, maybe not. But it was the idiotic hawkish stands from people like Romney and Palin that turned Iran away from reform and got Ahmadenijad elected in the first place. Not to mention all the damage done diplomatically or otherwise in other Arab nations. And it has to be better than that.

Not to mention, considering the religious fundamentalists only support Israel because the existence of the state falls in line in their end of days beliefs, and not because they actually like Jews, I would say anything coming from that side is suspect at best.