Thanks for the Old Testament quotes. I'm sure it was interesting to some people. Can you please point out where any of this is being put into practice currently?

-- Golden Boy

ah, interesting. so that's the relevant question? if it's not practiced anymore, is it no longer the word of god and his commandment? What a strange interpretation of a religious text, don't you think?

And what about: Deuteronomy 12:32 "See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it."

Do you think god was just kidding around, that he didn't mean it? Or are you questioning the word of god now, or picking and choosing from his word what you like and don't like? Fascinating.

Also, i don't know if you've heard, but many people are still into virginity, and the whole cross-dressing thing? I don't think Pat Robertson approves of that either. I guess that means i can't wear pants. Darnit.

You aren't by any chance a lawyer are you? Let me guess, newly minted (we used to call them "baby lawyers") with good grades from a good school?

Oh yes siree Bob.

Yes it DOES matter how the religion is practiced. No one is concerned with the theology of Homer anymore, or of the Comanches (who practiced extreme, ritualized torture that would put modern horror movies to shame), or of the Norseman.

Oh but that's quite different. Greek religion is no longer practiced anywhere, except, last i heard, a remote mountaintop in FYROM. And i really don't know of the Comanche religion is practiced anywhere either, or the Norse. I'm pretty sure it's not. that's very different form a religion that is widely practiced and does not renounce its old roots, on the contrary, constantly traces them straight back to the origins and its birth.

We are concerned about Islam because it threatens us.

Is it islam itself that threatens you? Please clarify.

When the relevent passages from that fantasically boring combination of the Bible and Arab ambition called the Koran are quoted by people determined to make all of us in the house of war submit, I am concerned.

Ad hominems aside, the bible is pretty damn boring too. "and ezekiel beget izakel, who lived for 900 years, and izakel beget jebediah, who lived for 850 years" is a particularly winning moment in the bible, i think.

Anyway, yes, they quote the Koran to support their jihad, but they could just as easily quote the Bible, or the Torah, dontcha think? All of them are full of belligerent passages.

My point is, and i really do believe this, that islam is not to blame. Quotes, rhetoric, even the misled devout fanatics who blow themselves up, are tools in a global struggle for power that has little to do with islam itself, and more to do with an incredibly complex history and geographic interaction, and geopolitical forces at odds, where each player wants to maximize his or her power and/or influence. Islam is just a convenient source of resources, not any threat in itself, or a goal in itself.

These are very complicated issues -- the language must be precise to have any semblance of a productive and interesting discussion, imho. So, when you talk about islam, i think what you are trying to say is "muslims," and not just any muslims, but non-sufi ones, at the very least. and not all of them, by any strech.

Historically Christian societies have developed the concept of secular governement and individual human rights (neither can exist without the other).

Fascinating. So what about those Greek democracies, and Rome? Christianity swept through Europe and destroyed much of the progress that Rome had made in terms of judicial system, rule of law, even the arts and sciences. Why do you think 500ad to 1000 are called the "dark ages"? If christianity is such a wonderful and civiziling influence, what's that all about? Christians adhered to absolute monarchs as long as they possibly could -- democratic forms of government were developed by those who moved away from Christianity -- the american revolutionaries who were steeped in enlightenment political philosophers (who still talked about god, but have nothing on people like St. Anselm, and would be properly call deistiscs), the European enlightenment philosophers, the godless, atheist French revolutionaries.

Historically Islamic societies have not and now are attempting to correct what they regard as this mistake on the part of Christians, via immigration, terrorism, riots, boycotts, etc. etc.

That's a strech don't you think? muslims are all fine and good with elections in turkey, iran, lebanon, and the PA.

Interestingly enough when Dinesh DeSouza (sic?) on the right advocates capitulation to terrorism on the part of the west (we have to keep women and gays in line in order to avoid pissing off tradtionalist societies in the third world) there is no big outcry on the right over HIS advocay of capitualation to terrorism.

Oh is that the right's big excuse now, we're holding back women and gays for our security? Nice one. :)

Anon,

what about bosnia, malaysia, indonesia, singapore? don't confuse "islam" with "middle east."

Bangladesh, Bahrain, Burkina Faso, Cocos Islands, Comoros, Turkey (it's in their constitution), Kazakhstan (in spite of Borat).

I'm not sure how it works in places like Syria and Lebanon. There are lots of christians in both.

I think the situation is very different from what you think.