MS. MATALIN: Yes, because what we're seeing for the first time last week, is a majority of people now support and believe that the war can be won.

"Believing the war can be won" and "believing we will win" are not the same thing, and Matalin did not specifically state that "a majority of people now support the war."

I mean, yes, it's plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain that not only is that what she meant, but more importantly, the impression she meant to convey, but technically, what she actually said is not a lie, but is actually just meaningless foolishness.

-- evenson

What she did say is just as flatout bullshit. So it's still a lie because it just isn't true. So I don't know what you are trying to parse for her with your take. Change a word or two, it's still a flat out lie what she said.

Of course, I am not so naive as to expect the USA to actually execute a mature and responsibile foreign policy. Still I'd like to hear your thoughts on the idea of staying in Iraq as a moral imperative...

-- rustcrumb

Here are my thoughts. If a bull destroys your china-shop, you don't ask the bull to stick around to help you clean up the mess he's made. Because you know for a fact that the bull will only make matters worse if he stays around. That's all that the bull knows how to do. So you tell the bull, 'Get the hell out of here, stay out of here, and don't come back'.

Everyone, right and left, agrees that Iraq will be a disaster if we pull our forces out within any period less than years. It will be a disaster. However, it is a disaster for the Iraqi people RIGHT NOW.

snip

So, what do we do? We can't do anything until some kind of honesty prevails about our culpability. Then, we can talk about the specifics.

-- Diana Power

Everyone doesn't agree that Iraq will be a disaster if we leave. Certainly not necessarily any more so than it currently is. Some of us are honest enough to say that we just don't know.

There is no upside to staying since the current administration is running things. Because the disaster that is currently taking place will never stop while we're there, so long as the current administration is in office. That is why forcing this administration to withdraw our troops is the only improvement we can hope to make over the next year plus that the incompetent and totally dishonest administration is in power.

I've concluded that the biggest reason this administration (and others, including the MSM and sneaky or spineless Democratic Representatives and Senators), keeps this occupation going on is for war profiteering on many levels. I don't just mean oil. I mean every nook and cranny of war profiteering. There is so much of it going on, there is so damned much money involved that it absolutely boggles the mind.

it provides the republicans an opportunity to demand that congressional democrats to denounce the slur against the man ...

another brilliant move by MoveOn.

-- susan sunflower

"An opportunity to demand that congressional Democrats denounce the slur"? So what. Move on backed it up with point after point. If Republicans want to shine a light on the General's repeated propaganda gaffs let them. Then if the Democrats who take the bait want to say, "But well, the General did, after all wrongly, as it turned out, this, this, and this over time, as Move On has pointed out".

Why are you, Susan, afraid of what the 'republicans' will do? Isn't that very fear the whole point of this thread? Isn't that exactly what it is we are trying to get others to get over. Isn't that fear exactly responsible for the mess that we have found ourselves in...for so interminably long?

Kitt -- quite simply -- attack the data, not the man

No, Kitt, I'm not "afraid" of what they will do ... I know what they and MSM will -- the predictability of it is simply mind-numbingly boring ...

The facts could have better stood on their own ...

Attacking Petraeus was dumb... he's military ... he's doing his job ... he's a well-respected, loyal "company man" -- like Colin Powell ...

Attack the data ... not the man.

-- susan sunflower

They did attack the data and they also attacked the man who made up the fucking bullshit. I say...Bravo! Why the hell should we let "the man" off the hook? The man is a proven propagandist. People are dying partly because of this "man".

Attacking the specific propagandist wasn't dumb. It was honest and to the point. Let's stop letting these enablers get away with anything just because they have a bunch of shiny ponies on their shirt.

Bravo General Petraeus!

A truly bravura performance. It completely takes the winds out of the sails of the antiwar crowd.

-- nabalzbbfr

Yeah, sure. Let's see how America decides how much they just love being in Iraq after this display of the same old crap we've been hearing for years from the same old liars. What's new about this? Nothing.

When the polls show next week that the majority of Americans want us out of Iraq, just like they did the week before, you be sure to apologize, Anonymoose, for being the dumbass that you are by making yet another wrong prediction.

I noticed awhile back that you wrote that Gonzales, and Rove, would be staying in the administration.

Also, let us not forget, you predicted a Republican landslide in 2006 election.