And, of course, all the current Dems want to keep their jobs. At just about any cost, it seems.

There is a disconnect with that line of reasoning when it comes to voting for this piece of crap. They're on the wrong side of the overwhelming majority of the public. How does that give them power? It seems to me that it would/will/could very well do the opposite. Some - or possibly all - of the Democrats who voted for this thing will be out of power in little more than a year from now.

The one thing I keep coming back to is finding hard to believe Jim Webb would vote in favor of a bill so loathsome, and exceedingly difficult to believe he did so because he is a captive to Beltway wisdom and afraid of the Republicans.

-- -Mona-

Jim Webb voted against the timeline Iraq withdrawal legislation because, he said, he wouldn't vote to defund the troops while they are in harms way. A completely false reasoning because it has no basis whatsoever in fact. The troops would not have been left without bullets or armor or any other damned thing they needed. They would have been fully funded while awaiting plans for a 'well strategized' and timely exit. A more shameful and boneheaded misrepresentation of a legislation can not be found even on the Republican side of the congressional isle.

- Kitt

You may be correct but are you aware any redeployment/drawdown/withdrawal will probably take 18 to 24 months, and that is under ideal, non-hostile conditions. It is highly unlikely that most of the different insurgent factions will be throwing flowers and candy at us as we leave.

Yes, I'm fully aware of that, and I don't see how that puts a dent in the either misunderstanding that Jim webb had for the legislation, or the disingenuous undertone of his statement. Either way, he misrepresented both the basis for the legislation, and his constituents. In a word, he was wrong.

There are clear and obvious steps to take to force a liberal conscience on the Dems and therefore on politics in America. Liberals generally are taking none of those steps although individual liberals of course do. Until we do, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the rightward drift of politics.

-- Robert Franklin

I've been reading this same tripe over and over again in this thread.

Very early on in this thread (possibly in my reply to you, I don't remember for sure) I wrote that we have already been electing Democrats who we believe will speak for us. I said that Blue America was a great example of how that was getting done. As it tuned out, all of the Blue America backed candidates voted NO in House of Representatives on this horrid bill.

So, quit self righteously dumping on me and everyone else who believes we can get it done if we make the effort. If you think that that old tired line about malls and American Idol is all that we Americans are about well, I think you're a bore and you aren't paying close enough attention to the facts, because it just isn't so.

So why did you say you get up in the morning if everyone around you is on their way to the mall or watching America Idol?

The fight is on. It has been on for years now. We've won some battles! More to come!

Kitt again,

you say there's a disconnect between Dems voting for this bill and the fact that most people oppose the bill. There's no disconnect at all. The people who oppose the bill are mostly liberals and Dems know liberals will vote for them next election on the "lesser of two evils" theory. I happens every time, so why not now? That's been my point all along. Liberals give Dems no impetus to vote against bills like this. There are no adverse consequences at the ballot box for doing so.

-- Robert Franklin

I didn't see this post of yours before I posted just now to you. As you can read in my previous post - especially in light of what happened with the Blue America Democrats - you couldn't be more incorrect about what you are saying.

I already posted a link to Christy's post at FDL...

but I wonder if anyone is actually reading it.--KarenM

I sure read it. Thanks for posting the link. I read FDL daily but hadn't gotten to it yet this afternoon until you posted that link.

They are card carrying members of the NRA and will do whatever it takes to prevail.

-- nabalzbbfr

Gawdahmighty, man, they can't even get the College Republicans to sign on the dotted line and get into the fight that they and you promote so vociferously every day. "Do whatever it takes to prevail"? You mean like the way buzzards glide on down only after the dead begin to smell of stench? Bed wetters like you, nabalgazer, are good for nothing more than a laugh.

For some reason, we now think that people who chose to be in public life and to get power should be treated like 10 year old children in a civics class exercise.

-- rootless2

I don't know what to make of your "we now think" and your "10 year old children" theme, but really, it yours, not ours. Own it. Don't try and pass it off as ours. Okay?