OK, sport, I'll try again, even if Kitt wants me banned (so much for free speech! Haha you liberals are skin deep in the free expression department aren't you?

This isn't a public forum. If you come to my house and spout off genocidal rhetoric I'll tell you to leave. That would be my right. Same right goes for Glenn Greenwald on his blog. This isn't your house. You don't even have the guts to take a name, but yet you're making an issue about being asked to leave by one commenter. If Glenn asked anyone of us to leave that would be his right. I for one would not whine and complain about free speech if I were asked to leave. Because if I were to do that, I would not only be wrong but I would be the fool.

Would that be the Cleveland that is the home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame

I hate Ohio.

--Anonymous

What a surprise.

I have no opinion about Ohio or Cleveland. Never been there. Just thought it was odd that you made a derogatory remark about popular bands in Cleveland, when Cleveland happens to be the host of the Hall of Fame of popular bands and musicians.

Annoying as the past couple of days have been, I'd prefer not to see anyone banned.

Not to quibble, William, but I, like most all of us, put up with personal abuse and such, but to read someone over and over again promote genocide has an effect on my nerves that I'd rather not be subjected to.

Nonetheless, I'm only a voice in the wilderness. And that's fine.

Hey, Grasshopper

What this thread really needs is an impassioned discussion of...

Yeah, that's probably what this thread needs.

It never occurred to me to read eedjits as edits, but why not, and I love your re-write!

That was all very interesting, and, by the way, I want to become a monster you've created too, like William. I promise to drop in soon and often to get educated.

But...unless I'm missing something that you and William already know but are joking about, Arne's "eedjits" is his funny way of writing 'idiots'.

Sorry if that was common knowledge. It's late here. I'm tired.

I put in my opinion earlier. Genocidal advocates are not welcome.

somewhere far beyond tedium ...

-- jtp118

Succinct description of your comment, jt.

-- KB4Hire

Salon should hire KB4Hire.

Now, when Junior met with Angela Merkel and other governmental chiefs recently he had a bottle of [German] beer from which he poured this beer into a glass. I forgive him for doing it wrong, too fast, thus spilling by foaming. I just wonder how a recovered alcoholic - if such a thing exists - can drink beer without?

-- Dierk Haasis

Rumor has it that that was non-alcoholic beer. I don't know for sure what it was, but it would be extremely unlikely that an alcoholic - George Bush or any other alcoholic - would be casually drinking beer.

I disagree with an earlier poster about non-alcoholic beer necessarily resulting in a temptation for an alcoholic to ultimately drink alcoholic beer. While that might be the case with some, others have no problem with drinking non-alcoholic beer or wine.

Some of this conversation about alcoholism has included a number of incorrect myths and theories. Could be that I am contributing some debatable myths and theories myself. But I wanted to point that out, anyway.

AA and its offshoots are indeed a "cult" in the non-pejorative" academic sense of the word. The program is suffuse with confession rituals, and dependency on "God as you understand him." Supposedly secular rehabs have folks holding hands, heads bowed, reciting the AA "Serenity Prayer." And there is an entire lexicon of in-group vocabulary, tenets and slogans, some of which Glenn has unwittingly run afoul.

That's a refreshing approach, Mona. The AA or the highway mentality of so many who think they even have a clue about alcoholism is pernicious...counterproductive. I think AA or another way would be closer to the truth, or answer.

"You miss the point."

No, you miss the point. No matter how true it is that both parties have an abundance of horrid excuses for human beings, it's all a matter of degree. Such is life. And to that point, there is no way in hell's hottest corner that we would have gone into Iraq, and still be in Iraq, if Al Gore had been elected President in 2000. That, in and of itself, speaks to there being an enormous difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Life and death difference.

...The Cheer up Crew!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHgDQFnMZc

would it even then be fair to dismiss or belittle an organization which did its best to help when no one could offer a 100% reliable escape from the evils of alchoholism? What would be the point?

I'm sorry to say, William, that I think you are underestimating the intensity of the discussion and the intensity of the subject of the discussion.

I'm not wanting to take sides with AA advocates or AA non-advocates because that's not the important battle. The important battle is finding any way in the world that one's self or one's loved one can win the battle with alcohol.

I have opinions about AA and I have opinions about other methods. I don't feel that my opinions would be particularly useful in this GG forum in the relatively short time that we'll spend addressing the issue. I don't think I could help anyone under these circumstances, and I sure wouldn't want to take the chance of hindering anyone during this conversation.

That's one reason why I posted the the kids playing music on youtube a few comments back. If you haven't already checked it out, check it out now. We've got to be able to smile.