What if the civilians were Americans?...

Would these same people favor violent attacks against fellow American citizens? No. Just if they are foreign innocents.

-- Michmod

I think if you were to pay a visit to little green footbals (LGF) just about any given day of the week you would find wingnuts advocating the extermination of "libruls". Of course, LGFer's don't consider "libruls" to be Americans.

How can I miss you when you won't go away?

I keep telling you day after day

But you won't listen

You always stay and stay

I've begged and I've pleaded

I've even got mad

Now we must face it

You give me a pain

How can I miss you when you won't go away?

--Dan Hicks

I'm seriously at a loss for words. Almost. This disconnect about "supporting the troops" being tied into whether or not funding the f'ing occupation has any bearing on "supporting the troops" has been driving me mad for at least months.

And now, as you said, here is John Murtha, of all people, selling that hogwash. How is it possible that he has actually bought it himself? But then, on the other hand, how is it possible that he could dive so low that he would knowingly use that stupid disconnect to - in his mind - save his own butt in some political sense?

I really just can't believe that this is happening.

Of course, the reality is that Congress cannot, due to lack of clear budgeting, defund the war for at least the rest of the Bush- administration, even if they wanted to. And that is an issue liberal bloggers may be well advised to spend some time exploring, before spouting off about how this latest circus- act on the Hill constitutes yet another "victory" for the Bush- administration.

"The complete myth".. hah!

-- fleinn

What? Why would that be "the reality"?

"I will say that defunding the war assumes that our Commander in Chief will then do the reasonable thing..."

-- cross1242

Speaking of framing debates and all of that...keep in mind that Bush in not - nor has any president ever been - "our" commander in chief. The president is the commander in chief of the army and navy of the United States, as stated in article II of the Constitution.

"The time to rant and rave was before the war, but before the war..."

I don't know where you were, Matwaa, or what you were doing, but I, among millions of others all over the United States and all over Europe and so on, were ranting and raving before the invasion/war/occupation.

What I did not see was many people expressing actual anger that our government was about to embark on a venture as apocalyptically stupid as a war that could never end with an "enemy" that was actually our greatest resource in the region. The true geo-political ramifications of occupying Iraq were never discussed in the press, and even the most concerned and involved Americans rarely leave the boxes that their media heroes build for them any more.

Again, I don't know what you were watching and listening to. If it was the MSM you got what you say in this post. But the MSM has always been full of crap about all of this, and millions of us have known it all along. And we've known it for the reasons which you state. We knew what a mess this could all be. I read all of those points being emphatically made from well before we invaded. It was all out there. Sorry you missed it.

I can't and won't speak for the fools who, for example, believed that Husein had a hand in the 9/11 attack. I can speak for myself and the millions of others who knew that lie and so many of the other lies being put out by the administration and the beltway media were, indeed, lies and misinformation.

Ingsoc you dumb fuck...

Keep reading and supporting the polls. That's worked so well for you guys.

You fucking sheep.

-- tiberius

I don't think I've ever seen a comment/reply trying to cover ones ass that was more stupid than that one. And with Shooter having been around for so long, Tiberius, That's really saying something.

Kitt

So sorry that I dissappointed you but it's such a ridiculous topic it doesn't require much more.

This is the same answer dems have been peddling since Bush got elected. Republicans are devious, Americans are stupid, dems see the truth but can't get anyone to listen.

dems won the midterms on the platform that they would end the war. They've abandoned that and now want to blame the American public because they supposedly are to dumb.

You guys can't fight on the real issues so you create sub issues at the expense of American citizens.

Is this really what you all want to fall back on? Weak.

-- tiberius

You didn't "disappoint" me. I have no idea what you meant by that. What the hell do I care if you post idiotic comments?

The facts show that the American public misunderstands defunding. The facts show that the Democratic Congress is playing to that misunderstanding. With those fact in mind, I don't know what point it is that you're pretending to make.

I think you overestimate how hard it would be to make clear to the public that de-funding does not equal non-support. Except for a very few congress persons, the Democratic Congress has barely tried to make their case about de-funding. If they were to try, then even the administration-complicit beltway media would have to change direction or be scalded by the newly informed public. It's not impossible to make a case about a truly obvious point. It just needs to be attempted is all. It's really not so complicated.