there's no need for the dismissive, often snarky and accusative tone they use. Nobody here has done anything to them to deserve that.

I am not interested and NEVER have been, in breaking down the minutiae of where the current consensus attitude among American women and feminists and many left leaning men, for that matter, comes from.

But when I am dismissive and accusative, it is not in a VACUUM, but as a result of a deck that long ago became stacked ever more against men. There are many good reasons for my reactions.

1. It is a counterreaction to the immature, mindless whining I have so often referred to in the past that seems to emanate from women and feminists and that inevitably points the finger of blame at men-- all men, some men, maybe men, these men, thems men-- it does not matter. It is like the air we breathe in this country. So unless I want to go hide in Idaho, I have to encounter it nearly daily: in life, in the media, in organizations, increasingly in the courts, etc. We men have let women run roughshod over us and our rights. It is not too much to say "enough!".

2. It is a forceful assertion that I, and all men who think similarly, have a right to also snark back and to stake a claim in society. It is not enough for women to have defined men's place in society and to have put a red velvet rope around it and labeled it "the men's place". Men are pissed that for forty years or more nobody stood up to the feminist man-hating jihad that has so completely engulfed our society. Nobody had stood up and defended the men's position-- how we are affected by feminism, what feminism is misinterpreting about men, why we are harmed, what might be a fairer solution. Part of this is that men are stuck in a place where we both defer to women when it comes to matters of society and men's roles, and we also take seriously what women think of us men. Well, decades of this crap have taught men that women are largely unconcerned with getting an accurate bead on the lives of men, of understanding us, of being FOR us, of defending our place and role in society. Frankly, most of us men secretly believe women are inconntrovertibly coldhearted, mercenary and just terminally AGAINST us, even if occasionally they venture to pretend otherwise.

So, to pretend that there is no reason for the snark is to imagine that somehow soeeicty is being fair to men.

and you tend to overexplain everything yet, ironically, also open up new questions that need answering.

As such, were I to ever counterargue you, I have to explain all he threads of thought, making the letters ever longer and more complex.

So I have sympathy for poor MMM. And it makes me wonder why you argue so vehemently AGAINST men, always trying to find the loopholes and hoping that if nobody counters it then it MUST be that you are correct.

Well, you tend to look for the cracks in the arguments, but at core, you are not usually correct, but apologetic on behalf of women, as if that is ultimately argument enough for you (that because it is about women, that the argument MUST end with women winning).

But I decided to pick just one phrase you wrote, in order to show you an example of how your thinking seems to go wrong.

Now: it's MEN who cultivate this climate. It's the Macho Culture that says men have to behave as predators, that they have to ask--i.e. hunt--while women concede--i.e. are hunted. Look to the founding fathers: it was like that already. It's not the fault of feminism. Why don't you go after the true culprits for a change--Victorian-based gender roles?

The macho climate did not form in a vacuum. Men compete against each other. The prize? The most desirable women. The women encourage this, because they DO continue to pick the alpha men, generation after generation.

SO HOW ARE MEN TO BLAME?

Easy, in your mind, women are NEVER to blame, so men MUST be the ones to blame.

I see no other way to explain why you continue to throw off these delusional, simplistic tropes.

Maybe somehow you do have a valid argument, but you seem to be like so many men, who are nothing more than convoluted excuse makers whose sole purpose seems to be to square the circle in favor of women.

I do not respect such fakey fakey pretend arguments as valid. I seek TRUTH.

What got me on this tear, was your statement to MMM that hopefully you will get through to him.

As if you already have decided you are correct and that he is wrong.

Again, the typical crap arrogance and presumption of the left that completely disgusts me from taking the left seriously.

I have my arguments and my reasoning, but I NEVER presume to be superior or automatically correct. Nor do I insist that I must change another person to my way of thinking.

The problem with feminism (and they are legion and METASTASIZING) is that it somehow automatically takes itself as the be all end all.

Sorry, but the world is more complex than the simple Nazi salute and the crushing of the skulls of those who disagree.

I actually respect and like his writing and thinking. I met him once in Austin. A very personable and smart guy.